KVR Audio

Ingonator · Post by **Ingonator** » Mon Jun 15, 2020 3:40 pm

Funkybot's Evil Twin wrote: Mon Jun 15, 2020 3:25 pm What's nice with The Legend is you can now (as of the 1.31 update) lock the state of the global FX toggle. So if you want Global FX off, just load up a preset, turn global fx off, lock it, save it as default in your DAW, and you'll never hear effects. This way they're an option for sound designers, and if you never want them, you never have to hear them. Can't get better than that.

Same in OBsession and when you want the built-in FXs back you just unlock the FX on/off switch.

Funkybot's Evil Twin · Mon Jun 15, 2020 4:09 pm

Ingonator wrote: Mon Jun 15, 2020 3:40 pm
Funkybot's Evil Twin wrote: Mon Jun 15, 2020 3:25 pm What's nice with The Legend is you can now (as of the 1.31 update) lock the state of the global FX toggle. So if you want Global FX off, just load up a preset, turn global fx off, lock it, save it as default in your DAW, and you'll never hear effects. This way they're an option for sound designers, and if you never want them, you never have to hear them. Can't get better than that.
Same in OBsession and when you want the built-in FXs back you just unlock the FX on/off switch.

Yep. That was my assumption. Just gotta get U-he to implement the same thing.

electro · Post by **electro** » Mon Jun 15, 2020 4:17 pm

This is true. Its just the existence of those FX encourages the creation of weaker presets and sounds that are out of character with the original hardware. Bypassing FX on certain patches can result in a drastically different sound, other patches where FX were used sparingly instead of drenched, the dry patch is not so different.

Funkybot's Evil Twin wrote: Mon Jun 15, 2020 3:25 pm What's nice with The Legend is you can now (as of the 1.31 update) lock the state of the global FX toggle. So if you want Global FX off, just load up a preset, turn global fx off, lock it, save it as default in your DAW, and you'll never hear effects. This way they're an option for sound designers, and if you never want them, you never have to hear them. Can't get better than that.

Funkybot's Evil Twin · Mon Jun 15, 2020 4:27 pm

electro wrote: Mon Jun 15, 2020 4:17 pm This is true. Its just the existence of those FX encourages the creation of weaker presets and sounds that are out of character with the original hardware. Bypassing FX on certain patches can result in a drastically different sound, other patches where FX were used sparingly instead of drenched, the dry patch is not so different.

Do any large-scale commercial synths come completely dry and/or utilize no FX in the factory patches? Hell, even hardware synths are typically run through FX (hence 90% of YouTube videos/synth demonstrations being drenched in verb). I definitely want to hear patches slathered in FX, that I can either keep as-is, or replace come mix time. When I do my own patch creation, I'm using FX too.

I don't think it makes anything less authentic or means the sound design is any worse as long as the synth sounds right when dry. Hell, part of good sound design is making good use of FX IMO.

I get having to turn off a reverb that doesn't work in the context of a mix, but I'd think the vast, vast majority of VSTi users (even modern hardware synths) want at least some onboard FX and presets that make use of them. This is evidenced by the fact that just about everything these days comes with hardware FX, including some recreations/updates of some classics. So having an FX Bypass you can lock into the off position should be the next best thing for you.

Ingonator · Post by **Ingonator** » Mon Jun 15, 2020 4:39 pm

One thing that would be difficult to do with external FXs is modulation of certain FX parameters with e.g. the Modwheel, aftertouch, an envelope or a LFO except if the FX includes such modulations or you can use a MIDI FX to modulate it (like e.g. the Max 4 Live MIDI FXs in Live 10 Suite).

When using an OBsession patch with the built-in Chorus (which is used quite often with Pad/Strings sounds) there would be of course a big sound difference when switching this off, same when the Shimmer feature of the Reverb is used (this parameter was shown in the teaser video) which can result in quite unique sounds.
FWIW in the past i had used Chorus/Ensemble FXs that sounded much worse than the one in OBsession and actually i like this one.

zvenx · Post by **zvenx** » Mon Jun 15, 2020 5:29 pm

I guess I will truly find out when it is released.

But with emulations of famous Vintage Synths for me it is important that presets chosen represent the instrument well for what they were famous for patchwise.

I do not know Kevin S; for all I know he could be a fantastic Analog Vintage programmer, but what I unfortunately know of his work is the one note wonders, the Amazing Modern Arps etc.. which are great for the Dunes, the Hive's etc., but to me not suited for Vintage Synths. Of course some people may love that sound and that is fine.

If there is anything I was disappointed with in Legend was that I found a lot of the patches did not well represent the vintage side of the MiniMoog. It is indeed in part why I prefer Monark which right off the bat with presets paid homage to the heritage of the MiniMoog. (I find Monark also 'dirtier' with more grit).

I find u-he gets that. Whilst indeed Diva and Repro do have modern sounds they also have a large amount of presets that does pay homage to the sounds and type of sounds those analog beauties were known for.

I am hoping that for Obsession either Kevin S does a lot more of that Vintage type of sounds or other sound designers like BigTone (I think he was on board, and he sure as hell knows vintage and how to make vintage modern) and others indeed have presets to well represent the instrument. I am hoping there is a good balance at least.

rsp

Teksonik · Post by **Teksonik** » Mon Jun 15, 2020 5:29 pm

Funkybot's Evil Twin wrote: Mon Jun 15, 2020 4:27 pm I definitely want to hear patches slathered in FX, that I can either keep as-is, or replace come mix time. When I do my own patch creation, I'm using FX too.

Agreed. The job of Factory presets first and foremost is to show off what the synth is capable of doing. To show it in the best light. Having factory presets with FX on makes perfect sense. They can always be turned off.

There is no way any factory preset is going to fit in every mix when there are thousands of possible mixes.

In some cases the FX become part of the patch such as when a Delay is used to play off of an Arpeggiator or when Chorus is used to fatten up a sound. Turning them off will only destroy the patch as it was intended to sound.

Yorrrrrr · Post by **Yorrrrrr** » Mon Jun 15, 2020 5:37 pm

Presets should showcase the synthesizer capabilities, utilizing all it's got if that's what's needed. In Obsession's case, there's no need to restrict the sounds to the limitations of the old hardware. If that's all you want, well, you still get a "vintage" bank of presets included anyway. And you can easily turn off the effects if you don't like them. Or you can make your own vintage presets.

zvenx · Post by **zvenx** » Mon Jun 15, 2020 5:40 pm

Yorrrrrr wrote: Mon Jun 15, 2020 5:37 pm Presets should showcase the synthesizer capabilities, utilizing all it's got if that's what's needed. In Obsession's case, there's no need to restrict the sounds to the limitations of the old hardware. If that's all you want, well, you still get a "vintage" bank of presets included anyway.

Not not at all what all I want. But I want it to include it.
And I didn't at all say the limitations. I said sounds that it was known for.
I found the Vintage bank with some exceptions in Legend very very disappointing tbh.
If you have Monark and go thru its presets you will probably hear what I mean better than I have expressed it in words.
rsp

Teksonik · Post by **Teksonik** » Mon Jun 15, 2020 5:42 pm

zvenx wrote: Mon Jun 15, 2020 5:29 pm If there is anything I was disappointed with in Legend was that I found a lot of the patches did not well represent the vintage side of the MiniMoog.

Did you miss the KPR Classic Patches (which I'm sure someone will come along and brag about) ?

Legend 061520-1.png

zvenx · Post by **zvenx** » Mon Jun 15, 2020 5:44 pm

Teksonik wrote: Mon Jun 15, 2020 5:42 pm
zvenx wrote: Mon Jun 15, 2020 5:29 pm If there is anything I was disappointed with in Legend was that I found a lot of the patches did not well represent the vintage side of the MiniMoog.
Did you miss the KPR Classic Patches (which I'm sure someone will come along and brag about) ?

Legend 061520-1.png

lol
No comments, but yes I have indeed listened to those.
rsp

Yorrrrrr · Post by **Yorrrrrr** » Mon Jun 15, 2020 5:45 pm

I'm sure some of you will try to make 1:1 copies of the original OB-Xa factory sound bank:

http://www.electrongate.com/obfiles/OB- ... h_book.pdf

zvenx · Post by **zvenx** » Mon Jun 15, 2020 5:46 pm

Yorrrrrr wrote: Mon Jun 15, 2020 5:45 pm I'm sure some of you will try to do 1:1 copies of the original OB-Xa factory sound bank.

I don't necessarily mean the factory bank. I mean how it was used.
Jump for example whilst that convo went on and on was a good example.

rsp

Yorrrrrr · Post by **Yorrrrrr** » Mon Jun 15, 2020 5:48 pm

It's not easy to replicate exactly those Jump or other sounds, especially when one does not know exactly what was going on there (not only an OB-Xa was utilized, maybe external effects as well, the mixing, mastering and such). And the user (sound designer) error. Perhaps you should try once Obsession is out. However, I think there are some Jump-ish patches included; can't guarantee it'll be a 1:1 copy though.

vurt · Post by **vurt** » Mon Jun 15, 2020 5:49 pm

zvenx wrote: Mon Jun 15, 2020 5:46 pm
Yorrrrrr wrote: Mon Jun 15, 2020 5:45 pm I'm sure some of you will try to do 1:1 copies of the original OB-Xa factory sound bank.
I don't necessarily mean the factory bank. I mean how it was used.
Jump for example whilst that convo went on and on was a good example.

rsp

Upcoming Synapse OB-Xa: Obsession