KVR Audio

ph0bic · Post by **ph0bic** » Thu Jul 02, 2020 5:03 pm

Just wondering if anyone has come across this with the new 2004 windows update. This would only affect users who use a windows laptop (not desktop) for running music applications but this still is a potentially significant issue for many.
I'd be grateful to hear from other windows laptop users who have upgraded to 2004 to find if they have experienced the tell tale glitches with audio that turbo mode typically brings with laptop processors that are not really designed for this type of continued high performance. I've always done a small registry tweak for 'cs_enabled' to then give me access to power management options such as high performance mode or ultimate performance mode in Windows 10 pro
If you're not sure what I mean, this youtube video by Robin Vincent will explain better than I could.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxtkEyGih2g&t=5s

My laptop is currently on build 1903 so at the moment, I don't have the issue, although 2004 has appeared on my update page as a feature update so I don't know how long it will be before I am forced to update. As an aside, I'd also like to know if it's still possible to upgrade to the 1909 build (the previous build that still allows power management to be present), when the 2004 build is available or have I now missed the opportunity?

There are other software solutions that I have heard about like 'Throttlestop' for example but I am seeing reports coming through that these too are no longer working after the 2004 update.

Does anyone have any solutions or other methods of keeping your laptop processor in a stable, high performance mode without it stepping down and causing glitches? Does this method still work after the 2004 update? I'd love your advice

SLiC · Post by **SLiC** » Thu Jul 02, 2020 5:14 pm

Bitsum Lasso

https://bitsum.com/

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Thu Jul 02, 2020 5:15 pm

I don't get it. What does modern standby have to do with the power plans? And why are you posting a video showing the Creator Update from 2017 to illustrate the issue with Windows 10 2004?

You also don't have to do this as far as I'm concerned:

I've always done a small registry tweak for 'cs_enabled' to then give me access to power management options such as high performance mode or ultimate performance mode in Windows 10 pro

You can just create new power plans based on the high performance, or energy saving plans. Try it out, I'm not lying.

Greenstorm33 · Post by **Greenstorm33** » Thu Jul 02, 2020 5:20 pm

They better not have broken Throttlestop. I just bought an Alienware M15 laptop and it's great apart from running super hot under load. I'm using Throttlestop to undervolt it and throttle the turbo boost wattage to cool it down. Losing the ability to do that is probably going to tank my laptop's longevity

Haptix · Post by **Haptix** » Thu Jul 02, 2020 5:30 pm

^^exactly. If you are using so called "ultrabook" type computer, the cooling on those things is nowhere near enough to maintain "boost" clocks etc. 24/7. The cpu itself will reduce those clocks fairly quickly and if not, it will crash and/or burn. Only solution to get the most of the cpu, is to keep it cool enough.

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Thu Jul 02, 2020 5:34 pm

I'm still not sure if I get this thing. Doesn't it only affect laptops or computers which come with custom energy plans by the vendors?

Haptix · Post by **Haptix** » Thu Jul 02, 2020 6:06 pm

Hmmm. Id stick to the vendor's own app to set the power usage. I was retarded enough to read HP's thermal profile completely wrong and thought it was only a "fan control" - thing. Turns out it also configures the cpu's TPD (in this case R5 2500u, it has 12w - 25w cTPD) on my defence, it is called "Temperature and cooling preferences"

misleading mothe......s!

ph0bic · Post by **ph0bic** » Thu Jul 02, 2020 10:21 pm

chk071 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 02, 2020 5:15 pm I don't get it. What does modern standby have to do with the power plans? And why are you posting a video showing the Creator Update from 2017 to illustrate the issue with Windows 10 2004?

You also don't have to do this as far as I'm concerned:

I've always done a small registry tweak for 'cs_enabled' to then give me access to power management options such as high performance mode or ultimate performance mode in Windows 10 pro
You can just create new power plans based on the high performance, or energy saving plans. Try it out, I'm not lying.

Sorry for any confusion. Currently the 'cs_enabled' hack is only needed if there is no access to high performance mode within Advanced power settings. If this mode, or even ultimate performance is already listed, then no hack is required. The hack is just a way to gain access to if they are missing from the power options

Connected standby is the operating mode that allows a windows laptop to switch quickly between low and high power states. It allows it to use a sort of 'turbo mode' that can step up the processor for short bursts when it needs resources and then step it back down again when in a more idle state. This is fine, indeed desirable for general tasks as laptops are designed to conserve battery life, reduce heat etc etc. but this will cause dropouts and audio glitches when using the laptop with audio software. This is because running audio apps requires the processor to be running at a constant rate, not stepping up or down the power states. The 2004 update aparently removes all access to this by the user (I say aparently as I don't know if this is the case as I am still holding out on 1903, hence my question). This means that there are no longer any power plans so you can no longer base one on high performance as you suggest.

The reason I linked to the video showing the Creator Update from 2017 to illustrate the issue with Windows 10 2004 is that the process is exactly the same on that as it is up to and including 1909, however that particular video just goes into more detail so I thought it would explain much more simply and eloquently than I could here. The point is that in build 2004, as far as I'm aware, this is now no longer the case!

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Thu Jul 02, 2020 11:08 pm

Maybe I'm missing something, but, on my Acer laptop running Windows 10 2004, I'm able to create power plans based on the balanced, energy save and high performance power plans. Just checked. Same on my desktop PC.

ph0bic · Post by **ph0bic** » Thu Jul 02, 2020 11:09 pm

chk071 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 02, 2020 5:34 pm I'm still not sure if I get this thing. Doesn't it only affect laptops or computers which come with custom energy plans by the vendors?

All pcs have power plans but it's the laptops that use the turbo boost features for heat management and battery power saving.
The idea for a music laptop is to have the processor running at a constant rate which it is able to sustain via mains power. This often isn't the top rate the processor can achieve, but a lower rate which it can happily run constantly without too much heat generation. It is this stability that is needed to avoid the random glitches, pops and crackles that occur as the processor steps up and down through its power cycles on a typical balanced power plan. The high performance mode needed to do this has gradually been getting hidden from the advanced power options menus but was always (up until the most recent windows build 2004) accessible via a registry hack. This aparently is now no longer the case, and so no other power plans exist on 2004 builds
Desktops don't suffer from this as they generally have large cases, fans or water cooling, plus they have no batteries to conserve.

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Thu Jul 02, 2020 11:22 pm

I found this on the net: https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/win ... d92928b459

Definitely seems like it's a issue for some people.

ph0bic · Post by **ph0bic** » Thu Jul 02, 2020 11:32 pm

chk071 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 02, 2020 11:08 pm Maybe I'm missing something, but, on my Acer laptop running Windows 10 2004, I'm able to create power plans based on the balanced, energy save and high performance power plans. Just checked. Same on my desktop PC.

Maybe it's me who's missing something

As I've said I am still on build 1903 on my laptop so I'm only going on reports I've heard. If you're saying that you have power plans as before then that's great and sounds like your processor isn't affected. The new power plan is reportedly a slider going from battery saving to high performance but essentially the high performance slider setting does not disable this 'turbo' setting which is the process that steps the processor up and down causing glitches in audio. It may be that only certain processors are affected, I can't be certain.
In any case it sounds like you (and hopefully many others) aren't affected by this. Can I ask what processor your Acer has?

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Thu Jul 02, 2020 11:38 pm

It's a Intel i5-7200U. Pretty cheap laptop, so, nothing special.

Greenstorm33 · Post by **Greenstorm33** » Thu Jul 02, 2020 11:50 pm

ph0bic wrote: ↑Thu Jul 02, 2020 11:32 pm
chk071 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 02, 2020 11:08 pm Maybe I'm missing something, but, on my Acer laptop running Windows 10 2004, I'm able to create power plans based on the balanced, energy save and high performance power plans. Just checked. Same on my desktop PC.
Maybe it's me who's missing something
As I've said I am still on build 1903 on my laptop so I'm only going on reports I've heard. If you're saying that you have power plans as before then that's great and sounds like your processor isn't affected. The new power plan is reportedly a slider going from battery saving to high performance but essentially the high performance slider setting does not disable this 'turbo' setting which is the process that steps the processor up and down causing glitches in audio. It may be that only certain processors are affected, I can't be certain.
In any case it sounds like you (and hopefully many others) aren't affected by this. Can I ask what processor your Acer has?

Is that not something you can set yourself in the advanced power option settings? You could e.g. set the min and max processor state to 100%, which according to stuff I found restricts the P-states the processor can enter (link). Is that what you're referring to? I only have the balanced plan and this option is available to me in the advanced settings, though I am currently on build 1903 as well so maybe it's been changed.

edit: I think you're talking about C-states, which sound similar but are apparently a different thing

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Thu Jul 02, 2020 11:53 pm

Can you create a new power plan, and then choose between plans based on the balanced, energy save, and high performance plans?

Has Windows Update 2004 Removed Ability to Disable Modern / Connected Standby and Tweak Laptop Power Plans?