Dear all,
I'm pretty new to the Zebra and not advanced enough to create my own patches bottom up.
Anyway, I'd like to recreate two sounds by Nils Frahm, namely the synth line from "Says":
I took some DX7 e-piano patch, then the notes are a lower C, G and Eb a few octaves up. I think the measure is 3/4 and I was able to approach something remotely similar with an arp and an external reverb and delay. However, what really is the base sound? Does anyone know how it is possible to reach this sound with the Zebra 2?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIwwjy4slI8
I'd also be curious about these sounds:
For:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZJobS0Wh40
#2:
https://youtu.be/NW87dBPjHuU?t=457
Thanks alot!
How to recreate Nils Frahm sounds with Zebra 2
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- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 2 posts since 8 Oct, 2017
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Concerning "Says":From what I gathered from several discussions and partly found out myself, here's what I got so far:
Time measure: 3/4, ~120bpm
Notes for the (main) arpeggio: Eb5, G4, C3
Arpeggiator set to 1 octave, up (the internet says 2 octaves, but that does not sound right), 8ths (?)
Single oscillator, sawtooth wave, short decay
Delay set to 8 dot
Reverb added ontop of that
This is what I've come up with so far, it's of course a bit too slow:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/10xf4m8ky0yq4jr/says.mp3?dl=1
And the corresponding Zebra 2 patch:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/k6534g1db13q1 ... 9.h2p?dl=1 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/k6534g1db13q1r8/Says%20%28Nils%20Frahm%29.h2p?dl=1)
The last note of the bass part seems to be one octave too high, and I think something still isn't quite right with the delay.
Does anyone have any suggestions on how to improve this?
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- KVRian
- 629 posts since 15 Jun, 2017
Nils Frahm and Olafur Arnalds are huge fans and users of the Roland Juno 60 and the Roland RE-201 Space Echo.
The Roland Juno 60 is actually a very basic "single" oscillator, single envelope synth (oscillator is a mix of saw/pulse/sub, where all are synced to the master clock, effectively creating a single waveshape). Many synths can match this basic architecture. But not necessarily the oscillator shapes, envelope curves and filter characteristics. And of course, there is the arpegiator.
"Analog" waveshapes (e.g. saw & square) are usually not mathematically "perfect" shapes, effecting the harmonic content. https://mjailey.wordpress.com/2015/02/1 ... comparison.
The arp patch in Says is basically
- a square/saw ("analog square")
- a 24 dB/Oct low pass filter, with some resonance
- a fast decay envelope for both amp & filter
If you can't or don't want to use an arpeggiator, you can just loop C, G, D#, C+1, G+1, D#+1 in a sequencer at some 112 bpm at 3/4 time signature.
Add an echo at 1/8. (dotted). Adjust mix and feedback to taste.
Add reverb to taste.
On the Roland Space Echo you can turn the tape input level up hard, increasing output volume and eventually causing distortion. Also, adjusting the delay time on the fly will detune the echos temporarily. You can "emulate" that behaviour on a tape echo emulator. Not too many free options around.
arcDev Noise Industries - Dubb Box (free sort of Space Echo, 32 bit)
https://vst4free.com/plugin/569/
Interruptor - Bionic Supa Delay (free tape echo, with some extra options, 32-bit)
https://vst4free.com/plugin/1889/
The Roland Juno 60 is actually a very basic "single" oscillator, single envelope synth (oscillator is a mix of saw/pulse/sub, where all are synced to the master clock, effectively creating a single waveshape). Many synths can match this basic architecture. But not necessarily the oscillator shapes, envelope curves and filter characteristics. And of course, there is the arpegiator.
"Analog" waveshapes (e.g. saw & square) are usually not mathematically "perfect" shapes, effecting the harmonic content. https://mjailey.wordpress.com/2015/02/1 ... comparison.
The arp patch in Says is basically
- a square/saw ("analog square")
- a 24 dB/Oct low pass filter, with some resonance
- a fast decay envelope for both amp & filter
If you can't or don't want to use an arpeggiator, you can just loop C, G, D#, C+1, G+1, D#+1 in a sequencer at some 112 bpm at 3/4 time signature.
Add an echo at 1/8. (dotted). Adjust mix and feedback to taste.
Add reverb to taste.
On the Roland Space Echo you can turn the tape input level up hard, increasing output volume and eventually causing distortion. Also, adjusting the delay time on the fly will detune the echos temporarily. You can "emulate" that behaviour on a tape echo emulator. Not too many free options around.
arcDev Noise Industries - Dubb Box (free sort of Space Echo, 32 bit)
https://vst4free.com/plugin/569/
Interruptor - Bionic Supa Delay (free tape echo, with some extra options, 32-bit)
https://vst4free.com/plugin/1889/
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- KVRist
- 153 posts since 4 Sep, 2016
The thing with "Says" is elusive. Of all of the covers on YT on any plugins or real ones, they seem to be a hit or miss, and they leave out a few things. They all seem to smother the Juno 60 sound with Chorus which should be turned off. The Delay (A+B head) of the Roland Re-201, or RE-555 is crucial in making it swing as well as the reverb, and delay+reverb is nothing that can be done to taste. No Chorus on those ones too.
I've been using TAL-UNO-LX Juno 60 plugin, and there's a combination waveform of square and sawtooth together. The ARP speed and delay times are supposed to gel, and those can't gel without miniscule and meticulous try and errors. The delays are what makes the track "swing" or the arpeggiator "swing". Dotted 8ths.
I don't know how to include print screens in my post but I'll try. Juno 60 from TAL software.
Roland RE-201 Delay from - lo and behold - Guitar Rig 4 (!?). Do not turn up the spring reverb too much, just a smidge.
The DIGITAL PLATE reverb Nils Frahm is using for real. A rack mount unit. The only EMT 250 plate plugin that has comes close is this one from PSP Software, which works great. It's the one to use for the later piano melody too. I have not used ANY other reverb, since no one comes as close as this one. A very good no modulation plate reverb. Turn MOD off!! Set this one quite trebly, so that just the "ping" dotted 8ths (the Eb note at top) gets a little more reverbed than the lower notes. Works a charm for me.
I've been using TAL-UNO-LX Juno 60 plugin, and there's a combination waveform of square and sawtooth together. The ARP speed and delay times are supposed to gel, and those can't gel without miniscule and meticulous try and errors. The delays are what makes the track "swing" or the arpeggiator "swing". Dotted 8ths.
I don't know how to include print screens in my post but I'll try. Juno 60 from TAL software.
Roland RE-201 Delay from - lo and behold - Guitar Rig 4 (!?). Do not turn up the spring reverb too much, just a smidge.
The DIGITAL PLATE reverb Nils Frahm is using for real. A rack mount unit. The only EMT 250 plate plugin that has comes close is this one from PSP Software, which works great. It's the one to use for the later piano melody too. I have not used ANY other reverb, since no one comes as close as this one. A very good no modulation plate reverb. Turn MOD off!! Set this one quite trebly, so that just the "ping" dotted 8ths (the Eb note at top) gets a little more reverbed than the lower notes. Works a charm for me.
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Last edited by Mats Eriksson on Mon Nov 09, 2020 1:37 pm, edited 6 times in total.
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- KVRist
- 153 posts since 4 Sep, 2016
Oh I know it's a bit off topic, since this was about the U-he zebra. But the delays and reverbs will do for that one too. On some delays and reverb units you can adjust milliseconds in large jumps 5 ms, and it's too coarse. You'll hear it when the milliseconds are nailing it if you ride the faders of the arpeggiator or the speed buttons. You just hear when it clicks and locks. It's within ONE millisecond believe me.
