RANT! how MANY downloaders/apps do you need to install for VSTs/Libraries - it sucks!

[Teksonik]

to download a single plugin/ensemble and to have to use a 3rd party software manager is just ridiculous!

Oh I agree but your choice is to ignore the plugin or install the bloat needed to use it.

If we all ignored the plugin things might change but you can't get everybody on the same page for anything these days.

So like I said a necessary evil if you want to use that software. I hate it but have accepted it as a fact of life.

[zircon]

I can relate to this, but I will repeat what I said in the other thread. And to preface this further, I think it's much more annoying to get individual developer-owned downloader programs, than to use something that at least resembles a standardized platform. Also, IIRC, most of these single-dev downloaders are not particularly robust.. they just download a purchase once and that's all. Even Continuata is the same way. I can't open Continuata and see all my owned purchases from developers that use it. It's just once-and-done. Not particularly useful.

We use Pulse because it's the same kind of idea as Native Access - managing a library of plugins and sample libraries, all in one place - except it supports more products than those sold directly by Native Instruments. Even though you register Kontakt and Reaktor Player instruments in Native Access, you can't download or update them from there. And it completely excludes all other kinds of tools. WAV packs, non-encoded libraries, other kinds of plugins, preset packs...

Much like how Steam helped unify how people download, install, and update their library of PC games, I'm hoping that Pulse will encourage the same in our little niche of the software industry. Already there are at least a dozen developers using it.

Say you set up a new computer like a laptop, or an upgraded workstation. (I did this a year ago.) It's a massive pain to track down emails and downloads across different developers. Or even the same developer. Then you have to tediously grab dozens if not hundreds of files, unpack them, move them around, grab updates, etc etc. With Pulse, anything you own on there can be re-installed in a click. It's awesome.

The other thing is that for the rest of our catalog, large downloads consistently give people problems in their browser. The more tech-savvy among us might not have that issue, but our support team (previously) dealt with thousands of tickets from people who have issues downloading large files, extracting, merging, etc. Pulse handles all of that.

And at least speaking for ISW, we're always happy to provide manual browser download links to anyone that asks.

[onerob]

I do like how fast and simple the PA installation manager is. And once they add new features like version checking, it'll make keeping everything up-to-date an absolute breeze.

[Teksonik]

I have refrained from two of PluginBoutiques freebies not because they are bad but because i didn't want another License Manager.
I could live with software iLok as a standard.
ILok works ok for me.

Out of curiosity what two Plugin Boutique's freebies are you referring to ?

I guess I would be ok with iLok as the standard but I'd hope for a solution that doesn't get its claws so deep into your system.

I would even buy a Dongle if every plugin from every developer could be authorized on it and I wouldn't need any other license managers or downloaders installed but I don't think that will ever happen.

[Teksonik]

I do like how fast and simple the PA installation manager is. And once they add new features like version checking, it'll make keeping everything up-to-date an absolute breeze.

The good thing about PA is they allow you to download individual installers for their plugins (at least the ones I own) so if you don't want to use the installation manager you don't have to.

It's nice to have that choice.

[vurt]

I do like how fast and simple the PA installation manager is. And once they add new features like version checking, it'll make keeping everything up-to-date an absolute breeze.

The good thing about PA is they allow you to download individual installers for their plugins (at least the ones I own) so if you don't want to use the installation manager you don't have to.

It's nice to have that choice.

as does insidious, so this thread was a little premature had he waited for a reply in the actual thread after he ranted there.

[Saffran]

I have refrained from two of PluginBoutiques freebies not because they are bad but because i didn't want another License Manager.
I could live with software iLok as a standard.
ILok works ok for me.

Out of curiosity what two Plugin Boutique's freebies are you referring to ?

Era 4 voice leveler.
Reason lite rack - maybe License Manager. I haven't really checked that because there's other reasons i refrain from that.

[sin night]

I like backing up my installers, keeping version control and such... but I also like when there’s a downloader to streamline the process. Actually, I like when companies offer both solutions (download manager and single installer for each plugin in the website).

When you need to reinstall a lot of things, a download manager saves you a lot of time. I had to buy two weeks ago and I spent days installing software... and thankfully, some plugins were managed by a download manager, so I could let the computer do its job while I did something else... but a big chunk requires to install them one by one (even if they are from the same manufacturer/ product line), so I had to stay in front of the pc for hours performing repetitive tasks... for some plugins, a downloader manager like Native Access would have saved me a few hours (unfortunately, not every download manager works that well, requiring a single selection to download and install everything; in some case I had to download and install each item one at the time, so it kinda defeats the purpose of the tool... with Native Access, I left the pc working for a whole night and I had everything ready in the morning).

For single updates, I like managing the download and installation without additional tools, but to setup a new machine (or to perform a massive update), an installation manager is not that bad...

As long as you have the choice...

[sircuit]

That’s not even a problem, but on windows this is what I find annoying: a single plugin can hold data in so many places that making a backup becomes almost impossible:

Installed in c:\program files\developer name\
Some files in c:\program files\common files\developer name\
Extra files in c:\programdata\developer name
Presets in c:\users\public\documents\developer name
User presets in c:\users\user name\documents\developer name
Other files in c:\users\appdata\local\developer name\
Another set of files at c:\users\appdata\roaming\developer name\

Then we have installers that leave after update their entire size worth of “uninstall files” on the hard drive and if deleted, any future update will not work. A certain daw is leaving a 1.5 GB uninstaller file on c drive. Absolutely mind blowing.

/myRant over

[EvilDragon]

Those are MIcrosoft guidelines for storing different data in different places. For example, factory data that is not supposed to be modified by the user go in one place, user saved data usually goes to Documents or Public or Roaming (Roaming is used for networking purposes usually), etc. There is also single user (AppData\Local) vs all users (ProgramData) scenario that needs to be covered, and some plugins also respect that. Of course, not ALL of those locations are always used by all plugins.

This is normal and not plugin developers' fault. There's a similar situation on Mac, too (with maybe a few locations less, but not much).


Google about these folders a bit and it will all be clearer as to why it is like that.

[EvilDragon]

but Impact Soundworks and other companies arent NI with 100 libraries (yet)

You're a bit wrong there, ISW offers 80 products total (including bundles), so having a unified deployment solution like Pulse, that also offers to the user possibility to manage all purchases tied to Pulse from a single app is a no-brainer, really.

You'd be surprised how many users have problems with unpacking multi-part archives. Pulse sorts this stuff out easily. In the end it's about convenience, both for the end user and for the vendor (the number of support tickets regarding incorrect downloads, incorrectly unpacked archives, etc. was reduced tremendously after establishing Pulse deployment chain for ISW portfolio).

[Teksonik]

Reason lite rack - maybe License Manager. I haven't really checked that because there's other reasons i refrain from that.

I just installed the Rack on this system and while it didn't seem to install any manager the included effects and instruments are absolutely horrid sounding. 2001 called, they want their plugins and their GUIs back.....

I picked up Babylon for $7 just to get the free Rack to see if any of the included instruments or effects would be useful. They are not, at least to me.

So you made the right choice in this case......

[BONES]

man, this REALLY ANNOYS ME!
come on, this is annoying, 8dio downloader, native access, soundiron, connect, gobbler etc. all have a different downloader.

I find it really convenient - you set up your paths once and you can install a dozen different products. Remember, too, that these utilities aren't just for download/install, they also take care of all your licensing. And things like Native Access are used by third parties, too, so NA takes care of my Output and Heavyocity installation and licensing, as well as all my NI licenses. All up it is one place to go to install, license and update maybe 30 or more products from three different vendors. When I am setting up a new workstation, I can leave it on overnight and in the morning I have 30+ products installed and licensed, ready to go. The alternative would be to spend a weekend doing it all manually.

Kilohearts is even more convenient because they always update everything at once. I'd much rather have their installer do it all in one go for me, instead of me having to download, install and license 20 separate plugins.

That’s not even a problem, but on windows this is what I find annoying: a single plugin can hold data in so many places that making a backup becomes almost impossible:

Installed in c:\program files\developer name\
Some files in c:\program files\common files\developer name\
Extra files in c:\programdata\developer name
Presets in c:\users\public\documents\developer name
User presets in c:\users\user name\documents\developer name
Other files in c:\users\appdata\local\developer name\
Another set of files at c:\users\appdata\roaming\developer name\

Why do you need to back everything up? Just back up the installer and your Documents folder and you'll be fine. My "INSTALLERS" folder has almost 300GB worth of zips, exes and other forms of installation files in it. It is larger than all the other data on my data drive combined, both for music and for my work. It's insane!

[wagtunes]

I'm with Bones. They actually make my life easier. Everything is handled by these installers. Can you imagine doing Native Instruments by hand? Or Waves by hand with all the stuff they both have? Forget it.

I have no problem with these things but hey, to each his own I guess.

[BBFG#]

From the introduction of NI Access and up to this current day, I've had to do it "all by hand". At least when Service Center was going, they also had the option to download from our accounts. Now I have to wait the one out of ten times it takes for Access to update itself, just so I can open it, let the downloads/updates fail - just so I can open the meta files, extract the URL and paste it in a browser to get it. And then run/install from my download folder.
Access (and Service Center) have been good for authorizing, but an absolute bust for doing anything else. Going through the browser works 99% of the time whereas the manager method hasn't worked but maybe less than .01%
Absolutely the worst example of a download manager there is on my system(s).