RANT! how MANY downloaders/apps do you need to install for VSTs/Libraries - it sucks!

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
User avatar
layzer
KVRAF
6896 posts since 11 Jun, 2006

Post Wed Jul 15, 2020 7:41 pm

I have been perfectly happy using my old XP OS and older mostly freeware plugins that use NO managers to make my electro music. i sometimes picture other musicians wasting hours downloading updates for their overkill content newer plugins to make some little song. its like they think they need a warehouse full of frying pans to fry 1 egg. hilarious. :lol: :lol: :lol:
HW SYNTHS [KORG T2EX - AKAI AX80 - YAMAHA SY77 - ENSONIQ VFX]
HW MODULES [OBi M1000 - ROLAND MKS-50 - ROLAND JV880 - KURZ 1000PX]
SW [CHARLATAN - OBXD - OXE - ELEKTRO - MICROTERA - M1 - SURGE - RMiV]
DAW [ENERGY XT2/1U RACK WINXP / MAUDIO 1010LT PCI]

User avatar
layzer
KVRAF
6896 posts since 11 Jun, 2006

Post Wed Jul 15, 2020 7:49 pm

sircuit wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 12:17 pm
That’s not even a problem, but on windows this is what I find annoying: a single plugin can hold data in so many places that making a backup becomes almost impossible:

Installed in c:\program files\developer name\
Some files in c:\program files\common files\developer name\
Extra files in c:\programdata\developer name
Presets in c:\users\public\documents\developer name
User presets in c:\users\user name\documents\developer name
Other files in c:\users\appdata\local\developer name\
Another set of files at c:\users\appdata\roaming\developer name\

Then we have installers that leave after update their entire size worth of “uninstall files” on the hard drive and if deleted, any future update will not work. A certain daw is leaving a 1.5 GB uninstaller file on c drive. Absolutely mind blowing.

/myRant over
all avoidable if you use the good ol' single .dll in a folder installerless vsti's
HW SYNTHS [KORG T2EX - AKAI AX80 - YAMAHA SY77 - ENSONIQ VFX]
HW MODULES [OBi M1000 - ROLAND MKS-50 - ROLAND JV880 - KURZ 1000PX]
SW [CHARLATAN - OBXD - OXE - ELEKTRO - MICROTERA - M1 - SURGE - RMiV]
DAW [ENERGY XT2/1U RACK WINXP / MAUDIO 1010LT PCI]

theorize
KVRist
375 posts since 26 Nov, 2007

Post Wed Jul 15, 2020 7:52 pm

I agree 100%... it just doesnt feel right having all these downloaders installed.
In the future there will be robots!

theorize
KVRist
375 posts since 26 Nov, 2007

Post Wed Jul 15, 2020 7:54 pm

I agree 100%... it just doesnt feel right having all these downloaders installed. And I don't even use that many plugins. I'm pretty sure each manager is for only one plugin except for waves, that's three.
In the future there will be robots!

ztrauq
KVRist
259 posts since 13 Dec, 2004 from USA

Post Wed Jul 15, 2020 11:40 pm

Having just done a major reinstall myself, I have to say that at least in some cases, the installation managers have made things much easier. This becomes even more the case in the situation where you have a computer (most common on laptops) where you have a very small system SSD, and a larger regular drive for data storage. Install manager like NI's, that's not braindead and allows you to set custom install locations? Set it up once, hit a few buttons, Komplete is installed. On the other end of the spectrum, installs that are just VST files? No problem, drop them in the folder. But a few dozen regular installers? You will be tearing your hair out, because aside from a select few installers that are smart enough to automatically recognize and point to your D:VSTs folder, they will all default to the main drive, and require you to use a bizarrely antiquated, tiny file browser to navigate to the proper location. Of course, not all install managers are particularly smart either (some don't even ask you and just dump stuff wherever for you to track down and move manually, grrr), but done right, especially if you have a lot of plugins from a particular company, they can actually be more of a help than a hindrance. That being said, any that decide to auto-start stuff or run when I don't need them get banished.

As for iLok as a universal manager, especially soft-iLok... well, let me just say this. I had a workstation suddenly become no longer operational at one point (which, let's face it, does happen). It had a bunch of iLok licenses on it. Those licenses died with the machine. Most software with iLok only comes with two. Which means that if I install it again on my new workstation, and that also goes, I am left begging software developers for more activations. They don't have to provide them. A couple workstations go bust, and you lose your entire investment in your plugins, with zero recourse? At an absolute minimum, for iLok to be a viable universal manager, it needs to have a method to restore or regenerate activations in that situation. In the absence of that, it seems insane to me to invest in an infrastructure where your ability to use your software across system crashes is that precarious by design.

.jon
KVRAF
5583 posts since 9 Jul, 2002 from Helsinki

Post Thu Jul 16, 2020 12:07 am

Native Access has served me well, but IMHO the best downloader is from Spitfire Audio. Adding libraries is pretty much as smooth as it gets.

Benutzername
KVRist
402 posts since 23 Jan, 2008 from Hamburg, Germany

Post Thu Jul 16, 2020 5:05 am

layzer wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 7:41 pm
I have been perfectly happy using my old XP OS and older mostly freeware plugins that use NO managers to make my electro music. i sometimes picture other musicians wasting hours downloading updates for their overkill content newer plugins to make some little song. its like they think they need a warehouse full of frying pans to fry 1 egg. hilarious. :lol: :lol: :lol:
Hmm, I just issue a simple "sudo apt upgrade" on a command line and just a minute later the entire operating system, all drivers, all frameworks, all applications and all plugins are up to date without any user interaction and without hiccups. And I can still work with the system without any interruption even if an update from one major operating system version to the next is running somewhere in the background. On top of that everything is completely free and legal.

But I'm just using an unusable tweaker's nightmare operating system. What do I know.

D-Fusion
KVRAF
3545 posts since 13 Jul, 2004 from Earth

Post Thu Jul 16, 2020 5:39 am

I keep a disc image so if something goes wrong i can reinstall everything almost instantly.

What i hate the most these days is that many plugins require you to be online to use them.
And all of the C/R plugins that need re-activation if you change something in your computer.

Before you know it you have to beg for more re-activations.

User avatar
layzer
KVRAF
6896 posts since 11 Jun, 2006

Post Thu Jul 16, 2020 6:27 am

Benutzername wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 5:05 am
layzer wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 7:41 pm
I have been perfectly happy using my old XP OS and older mostly freeware plugins that use NO managers to make my electro music. i sometimes picture other musicians wasting hours downloading updates for their overkill content newer plugins to make some little song. its like they think they need a warehouse full of frying pans to fry 1 egg. hilarious. :lol: :lol: :lol:
Hmm, I just issue a simple "sudo apt upgrade" on a command line and just a minute later the entire operating system, all drivers, all frameworks, all applications and all plugins are up to date without any user interaction and without hiccups. And I can still work with the system without any interruption even if an update from one major operating system version to the next is running somewhere in the background. On top of that everything is completely free and legal.

But I'm just using an unusable tweaker's nightmare operating system. What do I know.
yay for you :clap:
oh my outdated OS and DAW are totally usable and i expect them to be for many more years to come. i just know when to stop updating crap before
i become a slave to the servers.
HW SYNTHS [KORG T2EX - AKAI AX80 - YAMAHA SY77 - ENSONIQ VFX]
HW MODULES [OBi M1000 - ROLAND MKS-50 - ROLAND JV880 - KURZ 1000PX]
SW [CHARLATAN - OBXD - OXE - ELEKTRO - MICROTERA - M1 - SURGE - RMiV]
DAW [ENERGY XT2/1U RACK WINXP / MAUDIO 1010LT PCI]

User avatar
layzer
KVRAF
6896 posts since 11 Jun, 2006

Post Thu Jul 16, 2020 6:33 am

D-Fusion wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 5:39 am
I keep a disc image so if something goes wrong i can reinstall everything almost instantly.

What i hate the most these days is that many plugins require you to be online to use them.
And all of the C/R plugins that need re-activation if you change something in your computer.

Before you know it you have to beg for more re-activations.
and expect any old favorites to be cut from reactivating services like NI did.
yep, slave to the servers....
HW SYNTHS [KORG T2EX - AKAI AX80 - YAMAHA SY77 - ENSONIQ VFX]
HW MODULES [OBi M1000 - ROLAND MKS-50 - ROLAND JV880 - KURZ 1000PX]
SW [CHARLATAN - OBXD - OXE - ELEKTRO - MICROTERA - M1 - SURGE - RMiV]
DAW [ENERGY XT2/1U RACK WINXP / MAUDIO 1010LT PCI]

User avatar
OzoneJunkie
KVRian
1088 posts since 16 Jan, 2004

Post Thu Jul 16, 2020 7:11 am

My personal preference for single synth or effect items is the individual installer, particularly if the product in question uses only a serial number file without any Challenge/Response. I prefer this since it allows me to install to a new machine while offline. So if I get a new machine I can run the installers and proceed, without an internet connection. Larger sets like the Native Instruments stuff, I like their installer.

With Output's stuff, particularly with Portal, there's their normal Output manager, but they also have the option to use an individual installer for just the single product. However, the installer was terrible - it installed the files to the right place, but also left copies of the VST DLLs in a few other places, including the root of the C drive. Sloppy.

User avatar
rod_zero
KVRAF
3104 posts since 28 Jan, 2011 from MEXICO

Post Thu Jul 16, 2020 7:50 am

managing software has become a chore, that's why I have cut down on 3rd party stuff and fall back to just the DAW and not more than 5 developers.
dedication to flying

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