Arps in 2020...

[AnX]

who can even eat a whole chicken while still in store???

a fox?

[cleverr1]

a lot of ARPs are actually sequences programmed in by the sound designer, or a midi file embedded in the preset

in some cases they are just a sequence, and if their musical knowledge is poor, won't work well with anything but themselves

old school ARPs are good if you know your chords

An arpeggio is a musical construct clearly defined as the notes of a particular chord arranged in sequence. Arp is an abbreviation of arpeggio so therefore in synthesis anything that generates notes outwith the chord being input by the player is not an arp by definition.

This was understood and adhered to by the old school arps and anyone that writes a preset that generates notes that are not in the chord and calls it an arp is displaying their ignorance or at best their contempt for a centuries old musical concept.

i know that, im not sure you understood my reply... I basically said exactly that

Dude, I wasn't disputing your post, just enhancing your point.

you used to get arp and seq patches as seperate headings. now, they are just lumped under one in some synths.

bastards

i know!
probably leave their rubbish behind in shopping trolleys too.

oooooooooh, don't get me started on those dirt bastards!

Avenger has seq patches and arp presets but the arp patches are often not arps at all.
(On a side note Avenger was working perfectly here last night, but when I loaded it to check the above statement I got some horrible error message saying that I needed to re-install. I reinstalled, deactivated and then reactivated only to get the same error. So I ended up de-installing Codemeter v7.00a and replacing with v 6.90 from the Keilwerth site and only then it loaded again, yuck.)
This isn't just about Avenger as a load of so called arps on other synths are not arps at all.

who can even eat a whole chicken while still in store???

Is that a new KVR challenge

[tasty tatsyn]

From a personal point of view i find Arps distinct from sequences...
Like you said, in one (imo) you make/play the desired melodic/harmonic structure while in the other has it set up for you, personally i prefer Arps.

Sure you can also "play" the sequences but all kind of harmonic problems show up then.
I think it's because sometimes synth devolopers aggregate Arp's with Sequences and just group them in one category or the other. I agree, although similar there's a significant diference in both so they should be in diferent sections/folders/categories.

[GRUMP]

Same Problem as ist has always been. The People what BOOM and the more BANG the better Buck. They already implemented one Finger Tracks and unusable unique Sounds in the early 90s ROMplers.

[Spring Goose]

if I use a loop someone else made or even a preset, I feel a little like I am cheating, using another's work and passing it off as my own. It's like throwing a frozen pizza into the oven and telling your guests that you made it!

What about keyboards/pianos which have sounds but which aren't a synthesizer?

Personally i do sometimes use loops or presets and i don't feel guilty, ashamed, embarrassed, and i don't feel like a liar or a cheat. I understand that other people have different opinions of it. If somebody ask me "did you use a loop?" "did you use a preset?" i reply "yes".

What about keyboards/pianos which have sounds but which aren't a synthesizer? People buy these instruments to play these instruments, and they like the sounds of these instruments, and then they record it in a song. Do you mean that playing a piano is cheating, or that purchasing a piano with a better sound is cheating?

I think loops are available for purchase from a shop on the internet, and therefore the loops are fair game for using in my music. At the same time also i am making my own drums with NI Battery, and i'm thinking about buying Sonic Charge Microtonic but it isn't the top of my wishlist. I do like the loops because i wouldn't have possibly made the same as these loops. Also i can try copying the loops, remaking the loops myself which is good fun and which i'd rather do than copying other artists' music. It's been said to me "don't try to reinvent the wheel, look at or even study other artists' music", but ATM i'm still a bit uncomfortable with that. Personally i disagree with what you say that using presets or loops is cheating or lying. Ableton is one of the most popular DAW so apparently there are a lot of people who enjoy playing around at composition with loops, also Logic has just introduced similar loops capability. I don't deny these people having their fun with music and i don't deny the people making their money or career with music. Of course, the loops also can further be processed and altered.

I think our society are based around choice. I have the choice to spend my money on samples, rather than on beer, designer clothes, other luxuries, or synthesizers, or a guitar or drumkit or whatever. Each person has the choice what to spend the person's money on. Personally I like the samples because the samples immediately give me the professional sound that i need so that i don't feel disheartened during the learning process. Obviously the process of making, playing, recording, composing music, is a learning process, i'm usually learning something.

Also i think there is a bit of snobbery or pompousness related to being against loops/samples and or against presets. I have experienced this firsthand. I haven't said that i don't want to learn sound design and make my own sounds, actually i have about 20 synths and lots of effects.

I am open to the further discussion about the use of loops and presets, because i think it's an interesting conversation. Maybe i am wrong. Maybe later i'll realise i'm wrong, but ATM i am just another voice with a different opinion.

[Spring Goose]

using another's work and passing it off as my own

"Another" are selling this "work" for use in the purchaser's music. I mean it's like a collaboration rather than like a trick/deception or like a robbery haha!

[vurt]

who can even eat a whole chicken while still in store???

a fox?

crazy!

[cleverr1]

"Another" are selling this "work" for use in the purchaser's music. I mean it's like a collaboration rather than like a trick/deception or like a robbery haha!

"Collaboration" sums it up for me. If you don't already have a musical idea then maybe these types of presets are useful in a royalty free collaborative way. Nothing wrong with that and hats off to anyone that has a hit using such a preset that many are familiar with.

My gripe was about loading so called arps whilst arranging a pre-existing harmonic and melodic structure, a "song" if you will, only to find that whilst they may have introduced some rhythmic elements that could have inspired the arrangement, they turned out to be a frustrating waste of time because they dictated the harmonic structure in ways that no arpeggio ever would, provided of course that you arpeggiated the chords in the actual song.

[Spring Goose]

My gripe was about loading so called arps whilst arranging a pre-existing harmonic and melodic structure, a "song" if you will, only to find that whilst they may have introduced some rhythmic elements that could have inspired the arrangement, they turned out to be a frustrating waste of time because they dictated the harmonic structure in ways that no arpeggio ever would, provided of course that you arpeggiated the chords in the actual song.

I know, i realise i was off topic!

Again somewhat off-topic or maybe not: I have Audiaire Zone which i love, it sounds fantastic. But many of the arps included and the expansions have strange arps presets which don't seem to respond at all to playing the keyboard melodically. Maybe it's the same thing you're talking about. I wouldn't call it a gripe but i did think "what am i supposed to do with this!"

[cleverr1]

I know, i realise i was off topic!

np as the topic has evolved

How does this "preset" thing work these days in terms of copyright? Take the scenario where person A, desperate to complete a bank of presets to sell, includes one which happens to be a significant musical construction in its own right. The bank gets released with no thought about publishing because to person A it's just a preset. Person C then uses the "preset" in a release that becomes commercially viable and is published. However, in between these events person B has since copywritten a piece of music which is comprised significantly of person A's preset and makes a complaint that person C has infringed his copyright.

In this scenario who's IP is Person C's music?

[Spring Goose]

I know, i realise i was off topic!

np as the topic has evolved

How does this "preset" thing work these days in terms of copyright? Take the scenario where person A, desperate to complete a bank of presets to sell, includes one which happens to be a significant musical construction in its own right. The bank gets released with no thought about publishing because to person A it's just a preset. Person C then uses the "preset" in a release that becomes commercially viable and is published. However, in between these events person B has since copywritten a piece of music which is comprised significantly of person A's preset and makes a complaint that person C has infringed his copyright.

In this scenario who's IP is Person C's music?

I could hazard a guess, but i'll leave it to somebody else to answer this question.