Synth vs preset packs = same price

[VELLTONE MUSIC]

if the set is unique could cost more than the synth

[Teksonik]

Sound packs:
Serum sounds:20-50e or more (but also free one I know from YouTube)
Avenger about 60e
Rapid about 50e
Nexus3 30-60e

Synths:
Ana2 about 55e
Vaporizer2 about 50e
Phathom Pro 25e

Just what I know. Maybe there are more but this is just for to show examples for the people who did not believe.

You're confusing Sample Packs with Preset Packs. Naturally Samples will cost more than Presets.

[Teksonik]

I think this is normal. But I was really surprised seeing someone sell presets for Synth1, a free instrument.

I don't see a single reason why additional content for free software has to be free.

Because if the synth developer didn't profit from his work and gave it away for free to the community then no one else should profit from it either.

It's simply a moral issue which is why you guys don't get it. I won't discuss it any further. You won't change my mind.

[Teksonik]

if the set is unique could cost more than the synth

No, it shouldn't. You didn't put more effort into the presets than the developer did creating the synth.

Ok it's pointless to participate in this thread any longer so I will wish everyone a good day....

[chk071]

I think this is normal. But I was really surprised seeing someone sell presets for Synth1, a free instrument.

I don't see a single reason why additional content for free software has to be free.

Because if the synth developer didn't profit from his work and gave it away for free to the community then no one else should profit from it either.

It's simply a moral issue which is why you guys don't get it. I won't discuss it any further. You won't change my mind.

That's fine, but, it doesn't change a thing about your lack of knowledge of what the developer intended when he developed his synth. Preventing what you described is as simple as stating it in a end user agreement.

You're right, that's not even arguable, it's simply a fact.

It's funny BTW that you make a distinction between selling presets and producing commercial music with Synth1. What's the difference, and why is one OK for you, but not the other? (At least I never heard you complain about people using Synth1 in their commercial music, which IS happening. Check here for example: https://equipboard.com/items/synth1-by- ... ynthesizer) That doesn't make sense at all.

[e-crooner]

I think this is normal. But I was really surprised seeing someone sell presets for Synth1, a free instrument.

I don't see a single reason why additional content for free software has to be free.

Because if the synth developer didn't profit from his work and gave it away for free to the community then no one else should profit from it either.

It's simply a moral issue which is why you guys don't get it. I won't discuss it any further. You won't change my mind.

I am all for morals, but I don't agree with that attitude.
Basically, you are asking people to make free patches for a free synth, or none at all.
Also, a sound designer might need the money much more than a synth programmer, who does it for fun because he earns his or her money doing something else.
Also ii, free synths usually come with few and mediocre patches, but good sound designers invest a lot more time and energy in their patches, so it is ok to charge a bit, albeit not as much as in the case of an expensive commercial synth, of course.

[tehlord]

If I made a synth, I'd sell it a bit cheaper and collect the income from extra stuff like preset packs, extra oscillator modes, if it has samples then some extra built in samples etc.

Then you would go out of business fast.

Plugins can sell by the thousand, expansion banks do not for the most part.

[tehlord]

If I made a synth, I'd sell it a bit cheaper and collect the income from extra stuff like preset packs, extra oscillator modes, if it has samples then some extra built in samples etc.

Then you would go out of business fast.

Plugins can sell by the thousand, expansion banks do not for the most part.

I won't discuss it any further. You won't change my mind.

You're wrong, and ditto.

[tehlord]

If I made a synth, I'd sell it a bit cheaper and collect the income from extra stuff like preset packs, extra oscillator modes, if it has samples then some extra built in samples etc.

Then you would go out of business fast.

Plugins can sell by the thousand, expansion banks do not for the most part.

I won't discuss it any further. You won't change my mind.

You're wrong, and ditto.

[VELLTONE MUSIC]

I think this is normal. But I was really surprised seeing someone sell presets for Synth1, a free instrument.

I don't see a single reason why additional content for free software has to be free.

Because if the synth developer didn't profit from his work and gave it away for free to the community then no one else should profit from it either.

It's simply a moral issue which is why you guys don't get it. I won't discuss it any further. You won't change my mind.

I am all for morals, but I don't agree with that attitude.
Basically, you are asking people to make free patches for a free synth, or none at all.
Also, a sound designer might need the money much more than a synth programmer, who does it for fun because he earns his or her money doing something else.
Also ii, free synths usually come with few and mediocre patches, but good sound designers invest a lot more time and energy in their patches, so it is ok to charge a bit, albeit not as much as in the case of an expensive commercial synth, of course.

Absolutely, designers work is underrated and i am really grateful to all people still buying sets,some of my inspirations like Rob Lee stop doing it,probably i'm just too stupid or love it too much to stop hihihihi

[rezoneight]

I think this is normal. But I was really surprised seeing someone sell presets for Synth1, a free instrument.

I don't see a single reason why additional content for free software has to be free.

Because if the synth developer didn't profit from his work and gave it away for free to the community then no one else should profit from it either.

It's simply a moral issue which is why you guys don't get it. I won't discuss it any further. You won't change my mind.

That's fine, but, it doesn't change a thing about your lack of knowledge of what the developer intended when he developed his synth. Preventing what you described is as simple as stating it in a end user agreement.

You're right, that's not even arguable, it's simply a fact.

It's funny BTW that you make a distinction between selling presets and producing commercial music with Synth1. What's the difference, and why is one OK for you, but not the other? (At least I never heard you complain about people using Synth1 in their commercial music, which IS happening. Check here for example: https://equipboard.com/items/synth1-by- ... ynthesizer) That doesn't make sense at all.

You're arguing with one of the moral crusaders of this board who has no thought that other people have different ideas. Replying to that guy is a waste of muscle twitches.

[Psuper]

Yesterday, typical people growing up with hardware synths used to pay about $800 - $3000 for a decent mainstream synth that would be the "main" synth for many years - many. Most synths offered additional hardware (M1 had proprietary cards and K2000 floppies as examples) with preset patches loaded for about 1/10th to 1/20th the price of that synth, some extending rom samples and other nifty things. And if you were lucky enough to have friends who also had those types of synths, could sometimes share depending on what types of hardware or sounds they were (don't switch it off!!:). Then once BBS's got popular, you could get other types of patches, some nothing but detailed instructions how to create particular ones, others similar to downloading today. Then the net exploded and sharing was caring you could get it all for free if you really wanted to, all kinds of ways to get any kind of patch/sample you could dream of.

Today typical people grow up with softsynths that can do 100x what hardware could, 100x faster, for about 1/10th to 1/20th of the price of equivalent hardware of the past (and even now for the most part), and presets usually for about 1/8 - 1/4 for most synths. Some presets cost more more -- depends on the company/individual creating presets and what they think people will pay for them.

Relatively speaking those synths today are so cheap and powerful it's a moot point. What is not a moot point is there's so many software synths, effects, modules, environments, daws, on and on, people stretch their limited money among unlimited musical items so they rarely if ever find real value in presets (or even the specific synth purchased) because they're not dedicated to any particular synth or technology.

Everything today with regards to synths is dirt cheap when put into perspective, it simply boils down how much you enjoy any one particular tech, and how much money and time your willing to dedicate to it.

[SneakyBeats]

If I made a synth, I'd sell it a bit cheaper and collect the income from extra stuff like preset packs, extra oscillator modes, if it has samples then some extra built in samples etc.

Then you would go out of business fast.

Plugins can sell by the thousand, expansion banks do not for the most part.

You have some first hand experience?

[BONES]

Yes, it's like saying a book written in a freeware word processing program such as LibreOffice, as opposed to MS Word, has to be free of charge.

No, it's not. That analogy doesn't really work because the synth is the thing that makes the sound, the patches simply reveal what is already in the synth. But with a novel, 100% of the creativity you get comes from the writer. The word processing software makes the writer's life easier but doesn't contribute in any way to the prose or the story, which are the things you pay for when you buy a book.

That's fine, but, it doesn't change a thing about your lack of knowledge of what the developer intended when he developed his synth. Preventing what you described is as simple as stating it in a end user agreement.

What Tek is saying is that it shouldn't come to that, that people who are given a gift should reciprocate in kind, not see it as a chance to make money for nothin'. If you have to force people to do what is obviously the right thing to do, it kind of defeats the purpose of being generous in the first place. I, for example, would never have even considered charging for my SynthEdit synths because SE only cost me $20 and it would not have been right to take that act of extreme generosity and use it to make money. But plenty of people did and Jeff said repeatedly that he was perfectly OK with that. But his being OK with it didn't make it right and didn't make me see any of those people as anything but grubby opportunists, people who think their time is worth more than that of the person/people who created the software that enables them to do what they do. I think it is massively disrespectful.

It's funny BTW that you make a distinction between selling presets and producing commercial music with Synth1.

Where did he say anything of the sort? It seems you are making a big assumption there. When we used Synth1 on our first album, we made sure to give it a prominent credit in the liner notes and we'd have offered to share a portion of our royalties if there had been someone to make the offer to, just as we have done with the artwork on our new album, which we got for free from someone's website. It's common courtesy.

Also, a sound designer might need the money much more than a synth programmer, who does it for fun because he earns his or her money doing something else.

Then that "sound designer" can go and get a job stacking shelves at a local supermarket or make patches for a product he/she has actually paid for. Nobody has a divine right to make a living doing whatever the hell they feel like so if someone can't make money selling patches, they need to get a proper job.

Also ii, free synths usually come with few and mediocre patches, but good sound designers invest a lot more time and energy in their patches

This presents the perfect opportunity for them to give something back. If someone comes to your place for dinner and gives you a gift, do you then turn around and present them with an invoice for the food at the end of the night? No, of course you don't and the same moral principle applies here. Making a batch of presets available for free is the perfect way to repay the generosity of the developer who gives away the synth.

Absolutely, designers work is underrated

No, it isn't. In fact, I can't think of a more over-rated so-called job than what those guys do. It's about 5% of what any musician worth his salt needs to know about his trade. It's like a mechanic who only know how to change the engine oil - handy because it's one of the most common

i am really grateful to all people still buying sets, some of my inspirations like Rob Lee stop doing it, probably i'm just too stupid or love it too much to stop hihihihi

If you do because you love it, why don't you give them away for free? Why do you have to turn it into a grubby little financial transaction?

You're arguing with one of the moral crusaders of this board who has no thought that other people have different ideas. Replying to that guy is a waste of muscle twitches.

Prisons are full of people with "other ideas" about what's right and what's wrong and, frankly, the attitude of people around here to doing what I am sure your parents would clearly see as the right thing makes me sick. So to all those who constantly wonder why I seem so angry around here, this is the explanation. You people disgust me.

[BONES]

I don't think people who rely on presets, ROMplers etc. should get any flak for that either.

I'd put a caveat on that, in that I don't see a problem with it if the person is able to make their own patches but has other priorities. But if you never learn how to patch a synth you use in your work, I think that is very lame. Kind of like a guitarist who never learns to string his own guitar. Anyone should know how to use the tools they rely on every day.

True. Professional sound packs should (and almost always do) sound better than the factory ones.

Why should they? Most commercial synths will have factory patches created by professional sound designers. i.e. People they pay to make them. I would expect the factory banks to shit all over any 3rd party stuff.

Anyway, paying someone else to do things you can do for yourself is a mug's game. Yes, I have bought NI expansions, but only when I've had a voucher that covered the cost, and I even paid $2 each for a couple of Union preset packs, mostly out of curiosity. The thing this experience taught me was that even at those prices it was a waste of money. If patching synths was hard, I might understand it but patching synths is easy so why wouldn't you do it yourself?