The next Live update?

[antic604]

I suspect all Live developers have been employed on 'PUSH +' a revolutionary stand alone version of their controller and DAW in hardware in an attempt to beat Native Instruments to the market...wait, what? Dohhhhh

Yeah, I wonder what's taking them so long. I've been talking about it 2 years ago or so, that it's a logical next step. I can only imagine their ambition is to change Live & Push significantly, because otherwise it should be pretty "simple" to put a small computer in Push2.

[SLiC]

I suspect all Live developers have been employed on 'PUSH +' a revolutionary stand alone version of their controller and DAW in hardware in an attempt to beat Native Instruments to the market...wait, what? Dohhhhh

Yeah, I wonder what's taking them so long. I've been talking about it 2 years ago or so, that it's a logical next step. I can only imagine their ambition is to change Live & Push significantly, because otherwise it should be pretty "simple" to put a small computer in Push2.

Fully MPE/Midi2 Push 3

[machinesworking]

but with the new Logic, new StudioOne and Bitwigs fairly constant stream of updates every 3-4 moths it will need to be a big one to just catch up with many aspects of other DAWS.

Bitwig just adds more instruments and effects, nothing interesting as DAW development.

They all suffer from that. Logic and DP added Clips and Session View style features this year. But if we go into the weeds, Logic still has a 16 MIDI channel limitation, i.e. no port separation on input, DP still has no way to constrain MIDI on a track to a range like you can in any other DAW, and of course Live has limited universal keyboard shortcuts and no MPE.

DAW development is something they seem to all do reluctantly to keep us from switching, doesn't grab new customers to fix shortcomings other DAWs do not have.

[revvy]

We all complained forever about having a universal LFO, we got it with Max 4 Live, so Suite only. M4L is, interesting, we have this super UX DAW with an object oriented music programming environment grafted on. No polyphonic aftertouch, SysEx, MPE, Event list etc. but you can make a synth from scratch if you want to.


If Live gets MPE and a native LFO, I'm definitely still interested.

You don't own Suite?

I remember when M4L was first announced I moaned about the idea on their forum, guessing that so much necessary Live dev work could just get pushed into M4L.

[SLiC]

but with the new Logic, new StudioOne and Bitwigs fairly constant stream of updates every 3-4 moths it will need to be a big one to just catch up with many aspects of other DAWS.

Bitwig just adds more instruments and effects, nothing interesting as DAW development.

I am a current Live 10 (and Launchpad Pro MK3) user and also a BWS user (mainly with my Eurorack) and I can assure you that the basic DAW functionality is also improving with each update. But this isn't about BWS, I mentioned all the major updates that have come out lately, Perhaps Logic is the main one. At some point 'Live' will be compared to other DAWS in terms of cost and features to and other DAWS seem to be moving forward faster and real-time adding clip launching.

It would only take one really decent Live update to address this or add more 'unique' features, I personally have half a dozen feature requests ongoing in the Live and Beta test forums (for example, to be allowed more than 7 collections which I find unnecessarily limiting) and I remain optimistic that 'soothing' is coming (Ableton employ way too many developers for them not to have need working on anything for over a year!) - The longer we wait, the bigger an more interesting the update is likely to be!

Also, the 'Max' development side has ever been more interesting and I have acquired some amazing MAX add ins lately (Euclidian drum machines, CV stuff etc) that work flawlessly and feel like updates to me so...

[machinesworking]

I suspect all Live developers have been employed on 'PUSH +' a revolutionary stand alone version of their controller and DAW in hardware in an attempt to beat Native Instruments to the market...wait, what? Dohhhhh

Yeah, I wonder what's taking them so long. I've been talking about it 2 years ago or so, that it's a logical next step. I can only imagine their ambition is to change Live & Push significantly, because otherwise it should be pretty "simple" to put a small computer in Push2.

Live is the biggest CPU pig out there, a tiny mobile chip would not be able to give you stretch settings anywhere near what Live on a laptop can.

IMO they should be thinking about touch screens and their DAW, it's as slow of a adoption as VST3, but it's going to be standard some day here. Push 2 is solid, but maybe a version with an interface like the Linnstrument if they ever get MPE sorted makes sense. You can't use poly pitch bending on a Push 2, but it would be no issue for them to add polyphonic aftertouch, it's already there in the hardware.

Basically, please please please, let them not be wasting time with another hardware controller, let them be developing Live in the areas it needs to be developed in first.

[machinesworking]

We all complained forever about having a universal LFO, we got it with Max 4 Live, so Suite only. M4L is, interesting, we have this super UX DAW with an object oriented music programming environment grafted on. No polyphonic aftertouch, SysEx, MPE, Event list etc. but you can make a synth from scratch if you want to.


If Live gets MPE and a native LFO, I'm definitely still interested.

You don't own Suite?

I remember when Suite was first announced I moaned about the idea on their forum, guessing that so much necessary Live dev work could just get pushed into M4L.

And it has been pushed to M4L.

I own Suite, all I use in it really is Sampler, and the LFO.
Hundreds of dollars extra for basic features. I'm intrigued by M4L but not enough to learn it, my old computers don't like Live anymore honestly, and M4L is a CPU pig. Even Bitpig is lighter on CPU.

[revvy]

We all complained forever about having a universal LFO, we got it with Max 4 Live, so Suite only. M4L is, interesting, we have this super UX DAW with an object oriented music programming environment grafted on. No polyphonic aftertouch, SysEx, MPE, Event list etc. but you can make a synth from scratch if you want to.


If Live gets MPE and a native LFO, I'm definitely still interested.

You don't own Suite?

I remember when Suite was first announced I moaned about the idea on their forum, guessing that so much necessary Live dev work could just get pushed into M4L.

And it has been pushed to M4L.

I own Suite, all I use in it really is Sampler, and the LFO.
Hundreds of dollars extra for basic features. I'm intrigued by M4L but not enough to learn it.

Same same.

[SLiC]

I suspect all Live developers have been employed on 'PUSH +' a revolutionary stand alone version of their controller and DAW in hardware in an attempt to beat Native Instruments to the market...wait, what? Dohhhhh

Yeah, I wonder what's taking them so long. I've been talking about it 2 years ago or so, that it's a logical next step. I can only imagine their ambition is to change Live & Push significantly, because otherwise it should be pretty "simple" to put a small computer in Push2.

Live is the biggest CPU pig out there, a tiny mobile chip would not be able to give you stretch settings anywhere near what Live on a laptop can.

IMO they should be thinking about touch screens and their DAW, it's as slow of a adoption as VST3, but it's going to be standard some day here. Push 2 is solid, but maybe a version with an interface like the Linnstrument if they ever get MPE sorted makes sense. You can't use poly pitch bending on a Push 2, but it would be no issue for them to add polyphonic aftertouch, it's already there in the hardware.

Basically, please please please, let them not be wasting time with another hardware controller, let them be developing Live in the areas it needs to be developed in first.

There are some new VST3 improvement in the latest beta 2 of .25 I seem to remember, so they are working on it...

I also hope they are developing their software not hardware, but as Live is probably the most pirated software in the music world, you can see why they may choose to focus on hardware! Native Instruments, Arturia etc all successfully transitioned in to the 'hardware' world, I can see Ableton wanting more of that...

[noiseresearch]

/* whitenoise */

[antic604]

...native LFO...

You don't own Suite?

The problem with Live's LFO (and Shape, Env. Follower) is they're native M4L devices, which means they: 1) load longer, 2) take some 5-10x CPU that Bitwig's equivalents do, 3) have graphical glitches on their displays while you quickly scroll the devices panel.

I asked for native LFOs in their beta channel some 3 months before v10.0 came out and it's still not there. Although to be fair, we've been asking Bitwig to add a simple MSEG modulator since v2.0 came out and it's also not there either, so... Devs work in mysterious ways

[SLiC]

I suspect all Live developers have been employed on 'PUSH +' a revolutionary stand alone version of their controller and DAW in hardware in an attempt to beat Native Instruments to the market...wait, what? Dohhhhh

Yeah, I wonder what's taking them so long. I've been talking about it 2 years ago or so, that it's a logical next step. I can only imagine their ambition is to change Live & Push significantly, because otherwise it should be pretty "simple" to put a small computer in Push2.

I've read somewhere that Ableton is re-coding Live's core code. I assume that they at the same time implement max/msp even better than now. And quite sure they will implement mpe and midi2. Maybe with Live 11 and Push 3?

Somehow I think 10.5 will bring bounce in place, an overhaul of modulation effects, and a improved piano roll.

I really hope all of this is true, perfect for me

It doesn't matter what the DAW is, a solid 'core' (stability, CPU use, timing, latency) will always be the most important 'feature' and in the case of Live MAX integration (which is much better but can still affect the 'core' ) still has some way to go.

[revvy]

...native LFO...

You don't own Suite?

The problem with Live's LFO (and Shape, Env. Follower) is they're native M4L devices, which means they: 1) load longer, 2) take some 5-10x CPU that Bitwig's equivalents do, 3) have graphical glitches on their displays while you quickly scroll the devices panel.

Indeed, as I said before I always hoped against Abes using M4L as an excuse not to do so in the main SW but they really do.

[crystalmsc]

Somehow I think 10.5 will bring bounce in place, an overhaul of modulation effects, and a improved piano roll.

From the past releases, they always came up with 10.2, with meaningful updates to their instruments. That's my closest expectation based on the latest release. I want a crash protection mostly. Also a cool, modern alternative theme. Love their current GUI, but it's refreshing to see some new faces.

[SLiC]

If you bare 'bored' waiting for the next Live update I highly recommend these 2 (MFL) sequencer modules for Live

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oO_vJXj ... e=youtu.be
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cR9L9CrbHzo