How to actually get good guitar production tones?

[HREQ]

I've been trying for like a year now. I tried Amplitube 3, I tried Guitar Rig, and all the free amps. My guitar tones always suck. I'm trying to do 90s/2000s metal / rock tones. There must be some production tricks to these tones I don't understand how to do...

[fese]

I’m not a specialist for these kind of tones, but in my opinion the rather old Amplitube 3 and Guitar Rig don’t make it very easy. Something like the Neural DSP stuff would be more suitable and (imho) just plain easier to get a good sound from.
Else you might want to give a bit more information what you don’t like about the sound you got so far and how you record it (guitar, interface...).
One thing I learned over the years is that normal gain staging (like 0VU=-18dB) often doesn’t quite work for amp sims, they do need more input level. Record as high a level as your interface allows without clipping is a good start.
Also try a low cut (60-70Hz) before going into the amp sim. And EQ afterwards (e.g.remove fizziness at ~5Khz with a sharp cut, mud at around 300Hz, and boost the highs with a shelve. Just starting points, of course)

[lfm]

While struggling with this like 15 years ago with Izotope Trash and others, it's cabinets more than anything that make the tone. Don't focus on amps so much.

So with Trash, looking through and trying all box models(cabinets) and miking positions for them I still was not there but clear that right cabinets are important.

So I went for Damage Control Womanizer tube preamps before computer into these box models. A bit better.

Then went guitar tube amps and into a silent load and a external cabinet emulator I liked over that, and that is where I am today. Then a small studio IR in computer, to give tiny bit ambience to it so it gets a position as miked up - send just enough for that effect.

Amps are important, but real tube ones and spending enough time with them. Not forgetting pedal boards stuff too. Just a couple of good boosters and a good compressor is enough. And lots and lots of experimentation. It doesn't come cheap.

Amp sims, not sure where they are since I have not tried in recent years. The only one that did something was SimulAnalog Twin, and resembled what a Twin amp do. Marshall was alright too. But forgot which folks did take over SimulAnalog work, that was proper component modelling, but sure somebody here on KVR can repeat which do that today. Magix bought some plugin and called it Vandal that I heard good stuff about at the time.

To get the kind of control of tone that you do with a real tube amp, just how you attack string with pick and use volume knobs and stuff. I didn't feel that in amp sims at all, the levels break up much quicker in amp sims even if turning volume knob down - more like all or nothing kind of approach. Probably to do with that we focus so much on dBFs level, more than volume in digital realm. With tube amp and compressor you can go all soft and caress strings without loosing volume. Amp sims are more like garbage disposal grinding everything the same way more or less.

But a tube preamp might be a good start and fiddle with cabinet stuff in computer or otherwise.

[Daimonicon]

Most ampsims will do the work. But the problem with ampsims generally is the cab section. Newer ampsims like Neural or ML don't suffer from that problem. Do you use cab impulses with the free ampsims you have used? If you want good IR I can recommend Bogrendigital IR. He's one of the best metal producers and know how to get a killer tone out of any amp. What guitar do you use and what pickups? Do your guitar(s) have a good set up? Are you trying to compare how a good tone sounds in isolation compared to in a mix? Cuase a guitar solo tone usually never work in a mix. Most great guitar tones you hear on albums sounds dull in isolation. The same is true for most instruments. Is it your playing that sucks? Have you compared your playing with a hardware amp? A legitimate question becuase ampsims masks sloppy playing. That's one of the problems with using ampsims. Dynamic is another one and if you play looser or harder you won't hear any difference. A good enough hw amp won't lie to you and will be unforgiven with sloppy and mediocre playing. There are guitar players today that have never ever used a hw amp and that's a shame. Everyone should have a hw amp and pratice with.

[JO512]

Good IRs can make a big difference. I use Amplitube 4 and I always felt there was something off about the cabinets. They tend to have that peaky, hissy sound that annoys the hell out of me. I had read about how great the IRs were from people like OwnHammer. I bought a pack to try, the (r)Evolution Debut Bundle. They made a big difference! Much better cabinet sounds! Lots of people like OwnHammer's Heavy Hitters Collection. I have not tried those.

Some of the amps in Amplitube are actually pretty good, not so different from the Neural DSP stuff. The cabinets are where Amplitube really falls down. For metal tones, I've gotten the best results using the Mesa Dual or Triple Rectifier amp on channel 3 with the Overscream pedal (or some other Tube Screamer clone) in front, the cabinets in Amplitube turned OFF, NadIR with good IRs loaded and resonance turned up (the resonance feature is why I like NadIR or Libra), and some reverb. You don't necessarily need to turn the drive up on the Tube Screamer. It is mostly there for its characteristic mid-peak tone shaping. Some people don't like this sound. Try it for yourself and see what you like.

Much depends on your taste! You'll have to learn to dial in a tone that you like. But I can tell you, it really helps to have good IRs. The cabinet sound is a bigger part of the voice than you might suspect. Just cranking gain isn't all there is to it. In fact, you are often better off with less gain than you think you need at first. You need enough for that crunch. But where you really get that sinister voice we all love is from the way the cabinet shapes the tone. You can also get interesting tones without cab sims using an EQ with comb filters if you know what you are doing. That's a pretty fiddly way to go though.

I've gotten metal tones I really like by just using a distortion pedal alone with a good IR after it. Some people will immediately cringe at this suggestion, but try using a Boss Metal Zone emulation instead of an amp sim, along with a cabinet IR. You can use the one in Amplitube, Metal Distortion, or the free Mercuriall MT-A Metal Area plugin. It is easy to dial in bad tones with this pedal though. You'll have to experiment with its EQ. Ola Englund famously showed that the Metal Zone works pretty well if you use it as a preamp plugged into the FX loop on your amp. Roughly the same idea here, you just don't have a power amp.

Also, for metal, as you probably know, you generally want to use your bridge pickup. And it should be a humbucker. It is possible to get metal tones with single coils, contrary to what people think, but high gain and single coil buzz are not a good mix!

It is also a matter of technique. You need to learn how to properly palm mute, chug, and so on. Learn how to use power chords. And those perfect fifths won't sing if your guitar isn't nearly perfectly in tune! And don't squeeze so hard when fretting that you push the notes sharp.

[maquinasfantasma]

double track everything for a big guitar sound, sometimes I even quad track.

[fitzroy]

To my ears, and for clean/crunch, in terms of getting that 'production ready' sound without a lot of tweaking, Neural DSP's Archetype Plini takes the crown, although S-Gear is very close, and more versatile. The Fender collections for Amplitube are also solid.

[Qkimat]

Not mentioned yet - TH-U is amazing. I'm also a sucker for PA ampsims - try their Mesa sims - Megadual is the shit for those 90s/2k metal tones. Also, look around for good IRs and try NaLex ampsims. Amazing, free stuff. As mentioned before, dual- or even quad track your guitar parts. Don't forget what good bass parts can do for you too (hit me up if you need bass recorded for a couple of tracks).

[Daimonicon]

The bass guitar makes a big difference in a mix for the guitars. If quad tracking you need to be a very tight player. Otherwise forget it. And quad doesn't mean a better tone or wider. Just different tone. There are songs that are only double tracked and they sound wide. Wide enough for listeners to believe it is quad tracked. Using slightly different IRs on the left and right will make it wider becuase of two different sounds. Or another gutar or another amp. And if double tracked you can always blend two different amps on both sides e.g. 5150/rectifier is a well known combination that works good.

[Hermetech Mastering]

Find out what gear your 90s and 2000s metal rock guitar heroes were playing, and use that. I doubt they were using Amplitube, Guitar Rig or free plugs.

[Jafo]

Play with volume: amp up, guitar down will give you control and variety and less preamp fizz. EQ out anything you don't need: this often (but not always) includes bottom end. Experiment with dynamic EQ. Experiment with automated EQ: you want more bottom when solo, less when ensemble. Cut mids and it's easier to play around a vocal screecher and a cymbal basher. Find out what works in the mix: sounds that are great solo generally sound like crap with a band, and vice-versa. If you can find soloed guitar tracks (maybe on those Guitar Hero CDs, maybe in any file ending in .mogg), listen to them. The right kind of small tone can be huge in context.

There's no shortcut; you will have to spend a lot of time learning to listen properly and understand what works where and when.