Anyone successfully using legacy instruments in Sampletank 3/4?

[glokraw]

A new version of Sonik Synth II would be most welcome. I have the libs backed up more than any competing brands

I keep ST3 around because it works in my linux setups, and ST4 just seems like a fully separate product anyway. Both are excellent. Straight no-nonsense gui's for layering, effects, and all the rest. I need to learn the strummer section this winter
Cheers

[rollasoc]

Squids, Sonic Synth 2 is all over my early material along with a lot of the SR libraries (I possibly have almost every one). SR/ Esoundz also had one of the best support teams (Allen has been super helpul). Actually, you were really helpful to me (as well as others) in the Sonic Reality/eSoundz forum. That forum was my reason for joining KVR.

ST3 came along and I converted all my old SR libraries, but just didn't get on with ST3 at all, so stopped using it. Shame Sonic Synth 2 was a favourite.

New legacy versions for ST4, would make me very happy!

[SneakyBeats]

Didn't get it working.. I actually gave up with the whole IK ecosystem and uninstalled everything. There are better options that don't drive you crazy.

There are no better options I know of for what the "IK ecosystem" does. There's literally nothing else like SampleTank 4 with that degree of built-in modeled effects and analog modeled filters. There are other VI's that do other things though. It's more a question of whether what it does is useful enough to you. Guess not. And, anyway, very few people actually buy software and just uninstall everything. I guess maybe you were just using the demos or something.

Anyway, the new ST4 engine is great. One of the best for what it does. Unfortunately it doesn't read all of the legacy ST2 sounds, mainly the SR sounds that were done years ago with lots of experimentation with the old engine. Not all of those sounds are even available for sale anymore. They still work with ST2. But, yeah it would be great if they could work well in ST4 too in 64 bit-land. I think my response to that was pretty reasonable.

Yes there is. Obviously I didn't buy EVERYTHING IK, but those that I've bought + those that I received free, just aren't worth the hassle. Some fx I might miss occasionally but nothing I can't replace with something else.

[JohnPativens]

Thank you John, for exploring this and for sharing your findings. Over the years I have also been very disappointed that the older IK sample libraries are quite broken when performed with the current SampleTank (v4.x) engine. As you point out, the Sonik Synth 2 library in particular is wonderful with so many useful and inspiring sounds in there—I've used many in preference on commercial productions and network television through the years—it's such a shame all that terrific work by Dave & the rest of the Sonic Reality gang continues to go unheard and unused. It's still a great library even today. Like you, I continue to hope (against all reasonable odds it seems) that this will be corrected someday. Until then, I'll continue to struggle along with SampleTank v2 because the sounds are worth it and many I've found irreplaceable.

You're welcome! I'm still exploring but gotta say that, after months with it, ST4 has more pros than cons. There are things and tricks that in ST2 simply can't be done in terms of control.. as a compromise, each time I get into a problematic legacy patch in ST4 I try to find some workaround. I'm still keeping ST2 installed for retrocompatibility in Cubase though and ST3 for the library conversion feature only.
One thing I can't stand though: the ST4 Wha module sonically SUCKS while the ST2 one was simply superb, and there's still no workaround to be found for that.

[JohnPativens]

Hi! Squids here. So, here's the thing with Sonic Synth 2. We got extra creative with it doing all kinds of tricks to achieve what it's doing, differing from patch to patch, and some of those things weren't considered when the newer engines were made. IK didn't know what we did (Sonik Synth 2 was developed by my Sonic Reality team not IK). There were internal features we used a certain way that didn't remain compatible with future engines (we didn't know obviously at the time). Certain dual oscillator things and also we used some proprietary editing tools for parameters that might have had the data slightly off that future versions might get confused with. ST3 and ST4 work so differently from ST2. But, it works much better is the thing. For instance, if we wanted to have more than one patch in ST2 we had to duplicate the whole sample set for that sound! That's wasteful. In ST3 and ST4 we don't have to do that. But, there are many other improvements in the engines since ST2. Yet, I agree those sounds and VI/libraries were really useful.

The question is what to do about it that makes sense. I've converted those sounds for my own use musically and haven't run into too many problems but I have noticed some. If any of you want to give me a list of sounds you've had problems with you can message me. I'll collect those notes and go through it myself or with one of my SR guys and see how easy it would be to fix... probably have to redo the sound programming from scratch though and at that point I have to wonder if I should just update them and do a stream-lined version that doesn't retain EVERYTHING from the original but kind of optimizes the best of it... I mean at the very least I'd want to eliminate the duplicated multi-samples. But, does that mean I should try to recreate the same exact patch with the same programming? To me it's not important but maybe a specific sound if a fave of yours exactly how it was in ST2 and you'd like it as close to that as possible in ST4? Well... once I have the sounds working I suppose if it's only effects, filters, envelopes etc. then simple patches can be made by me, someone at SR or even you or one of you.

I'm planning on at least doing legacy versions of Sonik Synth 2, SampleMoog, Squids Tron Collection and maybe the Expansion Tank series as well. Miroslav Philharmonik 1 is already inside Miroslav Philharmonik 2 so that one isn't necessary plus it's a join SR/IK development. These others were just SR. I might ADD to these with new sounds or I might not. Haven't decided. It'll be an inexpensive upgrade for anyone who has it and not even that expensive for anyone new if they don't. Just something to keep these good sounds alive.

That said, I am also working on new previously unreleased in ST libraries as well. Some really cool ones for ST4! I guess pretty soon I'll have to be present in the good old Sonic Reality/eSoundz forum on KVR again. It's been awhile. We were actually one of the first companies to have a forum on here! One of the benefits of my presence there will be that I'll make myself available to you guys if you have any requests regarding our sounds. If there's a specific sound you love that has issues we can look into it. That kind of thing.

Hi Squids!
There are many SR patches which have usually one or more of these problems: messed up velocity, volume at -infinite, transposing pitch. Some of these problems are caused by bad setting translation on filters and envelopes. Other minor issues are on the effects side cause of the ST4 fx setup being totally different (some are better some are not, i.e. Wha module).
I learnt to cope with most of such issues when needed, combis/multis done on ST2 are mostly unusable though cause of it. Usually it's better to start those again from scratch on ST4.

[allen_esoundz]

Squids, Sonic Synth 2 is all over my early material along with a lot of the SR libraries (I possibly have almost every one). SR/ Esoundz also had one of the best support teams (Allen has been super helpul). Actually, you were really helpful to me (as well as others) in the Sonic Reality/eSoundz forum. That forum was my reason for joining KVR.

ST3 came along and I converted all my old SR libraries, but just didn't get on with ST3 at all, so stopped using it. Shame Sonic Synth 2 was a favourite.

New legacy versions for ST4, would make me very happy!

Im still around too

[Squids]

Thanks guys. Yeah I think there's gonna be a difference between compatibility with your old sessions vs. having access to those sounds again in the new engine. For the ability to load up old sessions I find that I have to just use all those old plug-ins and I actually keep a machine around to be able to do that when I need to. The BEST thing to do is to PRINT to audio but I haven't always done that in the past on my music productions so... I need to go back in time. I DO love ST2. There were things about it that were just great. But, ST4 is overall a lot better and much more powerful.

This might end up being trickier than I thought in some cases and other cases, depending on the sound, it's just a matter of adjusting the parameters to match. It's a tedious job so it's not HIGH on my list to be honest. Higher on the are new ST4 libraries and releasing all of these great multitrack Kontakt kits. Considering we haven't released a new sample library in years at SR this will be an exciting moment in and of itself. However, I do want to do get those legacy libraries together somehow. I'll experiment with it and see the best way. But, my general thought is to bring over the best of those core sounds (not necessarily patch for patch replicate it... because if the Wah is different or other effects it'll sound different no matter wha...t ). And, then, if there are sounds any of you guys specifically miss and want that's not included (if there are any not included - I don't know yet) then I can always look into it and see if it can be added. It might do the trick right out of the gate though too. Hard to tell until I put it all under the microscope.

That said, it's easier to just make new sounds for ST4 with that editor. Really cool that we have that now.

[Squids]

Squids, Sonic Synth 2 is all over my early material along with a lot of the SR libraries (I possibly have almost every one). SR/ Esoundz also had one of the best support teams (Allen has been super helpul). Actually, you were really helpful to me (as well as others) in the Sonic Reality/eSoundz forum. That forum was my reason for joining KVR.

ST3 came along and I converted all my old SR libraries, but just didn't get on with ST3 at all, so stopped using it. Shame Sonic Synth 2 was a favourite.

New legacy versions for ST4, would make me very happy!

Im still around too

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