Funny enough I was just reading about the Roland JP8000 today. Aliasing was a big part of the sound. Then someone makes a thread professing about their love for digital aliasing.
Aliasing is also a big part of chiptune music - you know Sega Mega Drive and SNES music. I think the early digital samplers like the SP12 and MPC60 had aliasing, so its a part of hiphop as well.
I love aliasing
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- KVRAF
- 6462 posts since 17 Dec, 2009
it is, that's why D16 Decimort is so popular, and why Battery has "sampler" emulation modes.
tbh, i like it as well on drums.
but i appreciate that i have control over it (like in D16)
tbh, i like it as well on drums.
but i appreciate that i have control over it (like in D16)
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- KVRist
- 126 posts since 5 Dec, 2009
love aliasing. the op-1 has some synth engines that get extremely weird as you play high register sounds
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- KVRist
- 126 posts since 5 Dec, 2009
sonic charge Permut8 is an aliasing playground
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 212 posts since 24 Oct, 2015
Yes, that’s another example where I prefer the “lofi” solution. When pitching down, a lot of samplers sound filtered and dull. Vintage emulations, or Sunvox where you can choose between interpolation methods, add a nice crunch that often sounds more natural to me.
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 212 posts since 24 Oct, 2015
One synth that doesn't hide it's aliasing is Native Instruments Spark, which I feel is quite an underrated instrument. The combination of feedback loops and fm can produce very unique and organic tones. Here's a quote from Spark's creator, Stephan Schmitt:
"Spark’s character is not always impressive, fat, brilliant and shiny. It can often sound cheap, ugly, and mean. I made no big efforts to minimize aliasing or to optimize the filter behaving in order to achieve the typically-favored analog "sound quality"."
Aliasing isn't necessarily a "mistake", or failure to produce analog sound. It's an effect integral to digital sound and can be quite beautiful.
Like v1o mentioned, many early digital hardware synths are sought after for their non-pristine sound. The first Nord Lead and many FM synths come to mind.
"Spark’s character is not always impressive, fat, brilliant and shiny. It can often sound cheap, ugly, and mean. I made no big efforts to minimize aliasing or to optimize the filter behaving in order to achieve the typically-favored analog "sound quality"."
Aliasing isn't necessarily a "mistake", or failure to produce analog sound. It's an effect integral to digital sound and can be quite beautiful.
Like v1o mentioned, many early digital hardware synths are sought after for their non-pristine sound. The first Nord Lead and many FM synths come to mind.
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- KVRAF
- 8828 posts since 6 Jan, 2017 from Outer Space
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- KVRAF
- 35434 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany
Some well known German snythesizer mag journalist (and musician) once called it "Schwurbeln" on the Virus. Pretty appropriate term. It can definitely be pleasant, to add some dirt to sounds with many harmonics. TBH, I never quite got why so many have some obsession with their VA's to be as clean as possible. Seems counter productive sometimes.
It can definitely be pleasant, to add some dirt to sounds with many harmonics. TBH, I never quite got why so many have some obsession with their VA's to be as clean as possible. Seems counter productive sometimes.-
- KVRAF
- 35434 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany
TBH, I'd be very surprised if many would even notice it without using a spectrum analyzer.
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- addled muppet weed
- 105849 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass
pardon?
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- KVRist
- 161 posts since 30 Jun, 2015
I think it's highly funny we build super clean synths only to make them dirrrrrrrty afterwards. Btw 3xOSC from FL aliases like hell and I love it on a saw wave, especially when adding chorus etc later on.
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- KVRAF
- 6462 posts since 17 Dec, 2009
it's kinda obvious...
someone did a blind test in the SPL IRON thread on GS, same loop, one oversampled, one not. 9/10 people knew which was oversampled. I noticed it in SPL IRON before ever touching it with a spectrum analyser.
Also noticed it in knif right from the bat (the one that got fixed in about a week) - some people said its "tube warmth" or something, even my non-forum friend who advised me the knif. So i guess some people don't notice it even when it's so obvious that the developer themselves acknowledges it...
Sorry, this isn't PA bashing, they're just the most recent that had this issue - plenty of their plugs are oversampled and sound great.
It's the most obvious thing that makes digital sound "harsh". And in 2020 there's no real excuse to release plugins that are not oversampled for non-linear processing.
FWIW Inflator and Decapitator aren't oversampled.
Yes yes, they were great before people ""knew about plugin doctor"" or something, but reality is we get plenty of great plugin releases daily and we are used to non-aliasing high quality stuff.
A
because VA's (virtual analog) are not supposed to be dirty in digital sense of aliasing, it means they're poorly modelled.chk071 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 31, 2020 5:18 pm Some well known German snythesizer mag journalist (and musician) once called it "Schwurbeln" on the Virus. Pretty appropriate term.
i.e. i sometimes like running u-he bazille in non-HQ mode, just to get some grit from folding. But not always. And not being optional would mean it's a poor "analog" model.
however aliasing doesn't just add dirt with many harmonics, it adds inharmonic inversely correlated grit. If you additional push that into compressor/distortion, you get correlated grit but inharmonic with different ratios.
it just becomes a hot mess of harshness... and when it mirrors low enough it can also make mids sound congested and messy.
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- KVRAF
- 35434 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany
The thing is... people already made music with VA synth in 1998. 
And, not every digital synth is a strict analog model. If some devs made oversampling optional, you could have the best from both worlds. If only to prevent people from panicing when they see some aliasing on the spectrum analyzer. 
Actually, I watched a video of the JP-8000 the other day, and wondered how great that thing still sounds today. It has some kind of grit and punch that only very few of nowadays' super clean soft synths really have.
And, not every digital synth is a strict analog model. If some devs made oversampling optional, you could have the best from both worlds. If only to prevent people from panicing when they see some aliasing on the spectrum analyzer. Actually, I watched a video of the JP-8000 the other day, and wondered how great that thing still sounds today. It has some kind of grit and punch that only very few of nowadays' super clean soft synths really have.
