Which instruments are the ones we can't fully replicate in the VST format...yet?

[I_V_502]

Hi.

I read on Reddit the other day that some instruments like Rhodes / Wurlitzer pianos or synthesizers have reached a point where they are indistinguishable from their analog versions. Most people wouldn't know at the end of the day if it was the hardware or the software version. But when we talk about guitars or acoustic drums, no matter how well programmed they are, they will always lack the human element that characterizes them so much. My question is: Why can a synthesizer be digitally emulated but with a guitar it is much more complicated? The same happens with the acoustic pianos I guess. Strings? I don't know.

[pdxindy]

A guitar has an entirely different user interface than a keyboard.

[BONES]

I can do completely convincing guitars, no problem. Just listen to these demos to hear how convincing a guitar VST can be -
https://soundcloud.com/ujam-instruments ... demo-songs

Now, you might say that it doesn't sound like it is being played by a real guitarist but that is all about performance, not the actual sound. And some Kontakt libraries, like the ones I am about to link to, go to extraordinary lengths to allow you to set up all kinds of performance attributes that I would never have even thought about. But just listen to some of these, they sound 110% like a real guitarist to me.

https://soundcloud.com/isworks/sets/shr ... ydra-demos

[donkey tugger]

I can do completely convincing guitars, no problem. Just listen to these demos to hear how convincing a guitar VST can be -
https://soundcloud.com/ujam-instruments ... demo-songs

Now, you might say that it doesn't sound like it is being played by a real guitarist but that is all about performance, not the actual sound. And some Kontakt libraries, like the ones I am about to link to, go to extraordinary lengths to allow you to set up all kinds of performance attributes that I would never have even thought about. But just listen to some of these, they sound 110% like a real guitarist to me.

https://soundcloud.com/isworks/sets/shr ... ydra-demos

Like a lot of these things, the high gain/metal stuff sounds pretty good. The less distorted/clean stuff less so, sounds definitely more stilted and 'programmed'. Still a moot point whether 99% of (non-muso) listeners would realise (or care) mind..

I think in terms of guitars, the area where sampled/synthesised stuff most falls down at present is at strummed stuff, particularly for acoustics. I think the technology still lacks the capability to model the interactions between fingers/plectrum, strings, fretting hand, and guitar body resonances - a f**k of a lot going on. It's not too bad for background rhythm stuff, but for anything prominent it still sounds a fair way off.

[whannel]

Looking forward to IK Multimedia one day announcing MODO Guitar, their bass and drum synths impressed me.

Propellerhead/Reason's latest synth is an interesting string based instrument, currently 30% off for Black Friday: https://youtu.be/KPcDsv9oE38

Pianoteq sounding pretty close too, for a 45mb download.

Not too sure if anyone has created wind instruments or will take on the bagpipes?

[BONES]

I think in terms of guitars, the area where sampled/synthesised stuff most falls down at present is at strummed stuff, particularly for acoustics. I think the technology still lacks the capability to model the interactions between fingers/plectrum, strings, fretting hand, and guitar body resonances - a f**k of a lot going on.

Yeah but they manage all that by recording actual guitarists playing an actual guitar. It's all sample-based so they can cover all of that stuff. As I said, it comes down to the sequencing, which is about performance, not the sound. Check out the Shreddage stuff and you'll see the lengths they go to to capture all of the nuance in the sound. They include things like whether "the player" is someone who hits the top strings hard and trails off towards the bottom of the strum or starts light and leans in towards the bottom and shit like that. It's pretty impressive.

[donkey tugger]

I think in terms of guitars, the area where sampled/synthesised stuff most falls down at present is at strummed stuff, particularly for acoustics. I think the technology still lacks the capability to model the interactions between fingers/plectrum, strings, fretting hand, and guitar body resonances - a f**k of a lot going on.

Yeah but they manage all that by recording actual guitarists playing an actual guitar. It's all sample-based so they can cover all of that stuff. As I said, it comes down to the sequencing, which is about performance, not the sound. Check out the Shreddage stuff and you'll see the lengths they go to to capture all of the nuance in the sound. They include things like whether "the player" is someone who hits the top strings hard and trails off towards the bottom of the strum or starts light and leans in towards the bottom and shit like that. It's pretty impressive.

In strumming though it's more than the sequencing and the triggering of the samples, it's how the strings vibrate and interact (especially on acoustic, but also to an extent for clean electric) to produce the resonance of the overall sound - more than the sum of its parts. I've never heard it done convincingly -yet (and did have a listen to the acoustic on the impact soundworks page).

I'm sure it's something that can be done at some stage as the technology is moving fast, but we're not there yet. The other thing is also the faffing factor - to get something half-decent programmed on acoustic takes ages, for something I could play and record in a few minutes. Again I'm sure with AI and whatnot it's something that can be addressed in future, considering how far things have come.

[gentleclockdivider]

Good luck trying to imitate the individual guitar playing style on a vst , there are literally a million possibilities how the the player hits the strings , not everyone use a damn plectrum
It's exactly this part that gives each player a unique style .
A few years back I was on top of my guitar playing style , a mixture of flamenco exciting all strings with all finger ( nailly part ) in a downward movement , hitting back with the thumb moving upwards finalised hard plucking with individual fingers . muting unmuting indiviula strings with the left hand ..in a nutshell

If you're just gonna do some rytm guitar or heavily distortred solo's , some vst's will deliver .

[vurt]

indeed, me and donks m8ght play the same chords, same timing, on the exact same set up, we would sound very different.

both the right and left hands do different things to the performance, little nuances that all together add up to a guitarists "tone". the individual!

[pdxindy]

Now, you might say that it doesn't sound like it is being played by a real guitarist

Funny that you mention it... It doesn't sound like it is being played by a real human being. It sounds monotonous by comparison.

[pdxindy]

Good luck trying to imitate the individual guitar playing style on a vst , there are literally a million possibilities how the the player hits the strings , not everyone use a damn plectrum
It's exactly this part that gives each player a unique style .
A few years back I was on top of my guitar playing style , a mixture of flamenco exciting all strings with all finger ( nailly part ) in a downward movement , hitting back with the thumb moving upwards finalised hard plucking with individual fingers . muting unmuting indiviula strings with the left hand ..in a nutshell

If you're just gonna do some rytm guitar or heavily distortred solo's , some vst's will deliver .

Even rhythm guitar or distorted solos sound dull compared to the real thing. Rhythm guitar can have so much nuance, groove, style...

[Psuper]

I've not heard a single convincing Fartist instrument, sampled, modeled, or otherwise. I'd love to design the the GUI for a modeled Flatulista.

Insta buy.

[neverbeeninariot]

I've not heard a single convincing Fartist instrument, sampled, modeled, or otherwise. I'd love to design the the GUI for a modeled Flatulista.

Insta buy.

https://soundiron.com/collections/winds ... s/flatulus - appropriately in the wind instruments section. Convincing, probably not so much

[pdxindy]

I think in terms of guitars, the area where sampled/synthesised stuff most falls down at present is at strummed stuff, particularly for acoustics. I think the technology still lacks the capability to model the interactions between fingers/plectrum, strings, fretting hand, and guitar body resonances - a f**k of a lot going on.

Yeah but they manage all that by recording actual guitarists playing an actual guitar. It's all sample-based so they can cover all of that stuff. As I said, it comes down to the sequencing, which is about performance, not the sound. Check out the Shreddage stuff and you'll see the lengths they go to to capture all of the nuance in the sound. They include things like whether "the player" is someone who hits the top strings hard and trails off towards the bottom of the strum or starts light and leans in towards the bottom and shit like that. It's pretty impressive.

In strumming though it's more than the sequencing and the triggering of the samples, it's how the strings vibrate and interact (especially on acoustic, but also to an extent for clean electric) to produce the resonance of the overall sound - more than the sum of its parts. I've never heard it done convincingly -yet (and did have a listen to the acoustic on the impact soundworks page).

I'm sure it's something that can be done at some stage as the technology is moving fast, but we're not there yet. The other thing is also the faffing factor - to get something half-decent programmed on acoustic takes ages, for something I could play and record in a few minutes. Again I'm sure with AI and whatnot it's something that can be addressed in future, considering how far things have come.

In addition to how the strings vibrate and interact together, there are all the subtle playing variations. How ones fingers lift off of the fretboard, subtle damping/muting, slight pitch variations, slight strumming speed variations, how one holds a pick, etc etc etc and all played in realtime on a real guitar.

It would be an insane amount of programming to try to duplicate all that and it would never have the spontaneous feel of a real performance.

[fese]

Cowbell. There's nothing like the real thing.