Falcon and Phase Plant comparison

[chagzuki]

Yes, that feels good... I want to feel at home in this environment, as much as is possible, and that was driving me nuts. Huge relief.

I wonder if I've missed anything in terms of ways of reordering layers and keygroups... am I right in thinking that the only way is via the duplicate function in the list view (which is very messy)?

[chagzuki]

I've been trying the Phase Plant demo and I'm surprised how elegant the design is. A PITA for me as I don't want to spend more money, and Phase Plant alone wouldn't have catered for my needs whereas Falcon most likely will cover pretty much all bases. Unfortunately Falcon has some UI bizarre design decisions that make the workflow clunky... but is so feature-packed within a single environment.

Phase Plant really looks and feels great in motion; screenshots don't do the GUI justice and make it look a bit arid, whereas with all the mouse-over cues and subtle animations it feels lively in use.

The thing that really puts me off is the business model, the model which pretty much all companies are adopting now, and I think it's similar to the Apple template. The product range is confusing enough that it's really hard to know what tier will make sense in practice, and the higher tiers are seriously pricey. The lower tiers are gimped enough that it's almost inevitable that one will have to ascend to the higher tiers, and they only really exist as a ladder. The individual FX items are cheap enough that one might pick some up on a whim since they won't break the bank, but if you do the maths buying the plugins separately would cost a ridiculous amount in total, but the aim is to get the consumer to commit to an ecosystem which locks them in enough that they then purchase more. And the effects in this instance are mostly very basic, much like the sort of stuff which is often free outside of the Phase Plant environment.

But I may yet be tempted.

[gondii]

I think Kilohearts really knocked it out of the park with the UI. Intuitive, fast and fun and I agree, looks pretty cool in action. I really wish there were more filter types and oscillator shaping options, but more updates are planned so I think that a few of the most requested features are going to be implemented eventually. They just added a very comprehensive Unison mode during the last update, so we'll see.

I think that the package you would want to be aiming for is Phase Plant Professional. The most basic version is too limited in the fx section (which I think is a big part of the concept) and this one has about 80% of the snapins included. November 2019 (year of the release) it went for <$170 during Black Friday. I believe that will be the price again this year and considering what you are getting I think it's fair. The ultimate upgrade during a sale is around $100. The only "must have" here I would say is Multipass, which was recently on sale for $29.

[chagzuki]

Yeah, I was tormenting myself last night as the Multipass deal was ending, and I was trying to use clairvoyance to figure out if I'd regret missing the deal. In the end I picked it up on the assumption that should I not decide to purchase Phase Plant I could sell it without significant loss. So perhaps the business model works as I already have one toe in the ecosystem.

[chagzuki]

The lack of filter options is stark; that's one of Falcon's strengths and something I've been really pleased by. There's also an excellent option in the ircam stretch oscillator to separate tone, noise and transient in samples, which I wasn't aware of prior to purchasing and will add a huge amount of versatility to drum manipulation/fine tuning.

[gondii]

Yeah, I was tormenting myself last night as the Multipass deal was ending, and I was trying to use clairvoyance to figure out if I'd regret missing the deal. In the end I picked it up on the assumption that should I not decide to purchase Phase Plant I could sell it without significant loss. So perhaps the business model works as I already have one toe in the ecosystem.

Haha, I think that was excellent thinking on your part. FWIW Multipass without the snapins is still useable as a kind of fx rompler, the presets and macros still work. And if you end up not picking up Phase Plant sell it on after BF.

The lack of filter options is stark; that's one of Falcon's strengths and something I've been really pleased by. There's also an excellent option in the ircam stretch oscillator to separate tone, noise and transient in samples, which I wasn't aware of prior to purchasing and will add a huge amount of versatility to drum manipulation/fine tuning.

Last week I purchased UVI Shade - a creative eq/filtering fx tool with all the Falcon filters and some crazy and unique modulation options. I am absolutely in love with that one, it's just so damn good. Maybe also worth checking out, the intro price is good until Oct 20th if I recall correctly.

[antic604]

I've been trying the Phase Plant demo and I'm surprised how elegant the design is. A PITA for me as I don't want to spend more money, and Phase Plant alone wouldn't have catered for my needs whereas Falcon most likely will cover pretty much all bases. Unfortunately Falcon has some UI bizarre design decisions that make the workflow clunky... but is so feature-packed within a single environment.

I've both and I never used Falcon for anything more than presets. It is awesome, and super powerful, out there with the best like Halion, Omnisphere, Avenger. But it is kind of complex and takes time to do anything, with having to browse through list of components and structuring them meticulously. You sort of need to have an idea of what you want to do at the start.

PP on the other hand is very fast, fluid and invites experimentation. Everything is just there, on the single screen, one click away usually.

Falcon can be the last synth you ever need, it's multi-timbral, if you buy other stuff from them - Drum Designer, their Valut series - they can be opened and edited in Falcon. But it's a bit like Cubase vs. Studio One - obviously the former is more complete & powerful, but the latter is faster, more modern and more nimble.

My advice would be, if you wanna go for PP, then get the subscription that 9.99 a month and you get 100 every year to use in their shop, so it's a bit like rent-to-own with some fee you pay along the way. You'll get all the SnapIns, Disperser, Faturator, both EQs, Multipass and kHs One synth. Using Multipass & EQs you can create some crazy filter, because they all follow the unified modulation scheme, so you're not limited to PP's native filters or SnapIns.

[antic604]

The lack of filter options is stark; that's one of Falcon's strengths and something I've been really pleased by. There's also an excellent option in the ircam stretch oscillator to separate tone, noise and transient in samples, which I wasn't aware of prior to purchasing and will add a huge amount of versatility to drum manipulation/fine tuning.

https://youtu.be/qc1Vk0Gfkio

[gondii]

My advice would be, if you wanna go for PP, then get the subscription that 9.99 a month and you get 100 every year to use in their shop, so it's a bit like rent-to-own with some fee you pay along the way. You'll get all the SnapIns, Disperser, Faturator, both EQs, Multipass and kHs One synth. Using Multipass & EQs you can create some crazy filter, because they all follow the unified modulation scheme, so you're not limited to PP's native filters or SnapIns.

I only would caution here that the vouchers do not stack (so you have to wait to "cash in" right before the big purchase) and vouchers do not work during sales. That actually made me cancel my subscription and just get the bundles during sales. I'd rather pay a more once if it means saving 50+%.

https://youtu.be/qc1Vk0Gfkio

Definitely good point on filters. Also with the per voice fx modulation function and the slice eq with all the parameters that can be modulated you can also have a lot of filtering fun. And there is a comb filter, formant filter and ladder filter as well... they should be added to the generator section too though.

[chagzuki]

I've both and I never used Falcon for anything more than presets. It is awesome, and super powerful, out there with the best like Halion, Omnisphere, Avenger. But it is kind of complex and takes time to do anything, with having to browse through list of components and structuring them meticulously. You sort of need to have an idea of what you want to do at the start.

That's the aspect where I feel like I'm missing something: I don't see why in Falcon they can't simply implement drag-reordering of keygroups and layers in the tree view. Is that going to somehow mess up the hierarchies... the ways in which the scripting language refers to things?

Say I have a drumkit and I want to try a variation on the snare, I have to duplicate it in the list view. And the duplicate gets put at the bottom, so assuming the snare wasn't the lowest layer the duplicate is now not next to the original in the hierarchy, and I can't reorder them. So I would have to double-duplicate the snare so I have two instances at the bottom of the list, and then delete the original. Then I've changed the order of things, and mentally have to remember this so that I can move around in the tree view without getting confused, which is not easy if there are many layers/keygroups. I don't see the logic. It seems like those aspects are the things which mean that one really has to, as you say, know from the beginning what the plan is, and some simple changes would make the workflow much more fluid.
I'm still thinking somehow I must have missed the modifier key or button somewhere that allows one to reorder things.

[chagzuki]

So it's 3 months on from when I first posted this thread, and contrary to my intentions to keep things cheap when I got back into music-making I now have both products, and have spent a whole heap of cash.

After a few days with PhasePlant I'm enamored with it, it's fantastic. The snapheap and multipass options for FX are also right up my street. It's superb for sound design, and one can dial things in almost as fast as one can think. I can fully see now the reason for the amount of love it's gotten in this thread.

Funnily enough the two products complement each other very well; they're both extremely flexible within different paradigms.
Falcon didn't live up to expectations in terms of UI, but it has a whole load of features that I wasn't expecting, and as result is awesome for building certain types of synth. It's great for percussion sound design, but not so great as a one-stop drum solution, purely because the UI limitations become very awkward. So nearly there, but just not there.

One thing left: I have the PhasePlant Pro suite, plus two of the plugins that come with the Ultimate bundle. Is it worth spending any extra to get the last few plugins, Faturator, Disperser, and Carve EQ? I'm not particularly feeling the lack of those plugins, though some gritty distortion might be nice... not there I find anything lacking with the standard distortion.

[PieBerger]

So it's 3 months on from when I first posted this thread, and contrary to my intentions to keep things cheap when I got back into music-making I now have both products, and have spent a whole heap of cash.

After a few days with PhasePlant I'm enamored with it, it's fantastic. The snapheap and multipass options for FX are also right up my street. It's superb for sound design, and one can dial things in almost as fast as one can think. I can fully see now the reason for the amount of love it's gotten in this thread.

Funnily enough the two products complement each other very well; they're both extremely flexible within different paradigms.
Falcon didn't live up to expectations in terms of UI, but it has a whole load of features that I wasn't expecting, and as result is awesome for building certain types of synth. It's great for percussion sound design, but not so great as a one-stop drum solution, purely because the UI limitations become very awkward. So nearly there, but just not there.

One thing left: I have the PhasePlant Pro suite, plus two of the plugins that come with the Ultimate bundle. Is it worth spending any extra to get the last few plugins, Faturator, Disperser, and Carve EQ? I'm not particularly feeling the lack of those plugins, though some gritty distortion might be nice... not there I find anything lacking with the standard distortion.

You can get Carve EQ for £4 with the December (current) issue of Computer Music magazine, just search for it on Zinio/Newstand

[chagzuki]

You can get Carve EQ for £4 with the December (current) issue of Computer Music magazine, just search for it on Zinio/Newstand

Thanks, yes, I was quick to get that one as soon as I saw it. So that means an upgrade to the Ultimate bundle is quite cheap for me, I'm just not decided yet whether the 3 extra plugins will make a difference to me.

Carve EQ looks like the old EQ I used to use, Firium. I found the spectral matching function useful for getting tracks to sound of a piece, way back when I was finishing an album. Are there any free plugins with spectral matching options? It's a special use-case, for which I could just use Firium in a 32bit host.

[l33t4e]

BTW, it's Slice EQ not Carve EQ. They said however that they may offer Carve EQ in some future issue.

[BONES]

Is it worth spending any extra to get the last few plugins, Faturator, Disperser, and Carve EQ?

Faturator is a pretty decent distortion but I don't think you're missing anything. Disperser is interesting but not actually that useful in my experience. I've looked at Carve EQ and decided I don't need it.