Why don't all VST instruments come with a simple gain staging button ?
- KVRian
- Topic Starter
- 1293 posts since 21 Nov, 2018
One that you can press that sets the volume of any preset to -18dbfs (or a simple drop down of your preferred gain stage volume)
I know there's the argument I've seen that users should be able to have the volume whatever they like but having a simple button that overrides the volume knob and sets it auto at a set volume would surely satisfy users from both sides of the argument, the ones who want to clip into their plugins simply don't have to press that button, the ones who don't just press the button
The amount of time saved from tweaking the volume knob so it sits at zero or as close as humanly possible on the VU meter would be huge
Just imagine browsing through presets and they're all at the same volume, it would be amazing no ?
I know there's the argument I've seen that users should be able to have the volume whatever they like but having a simple button that overrides the volume knob and sets it auto at a set volume would surely satisfy users from both sides of the argument, the ones who want to clip into their plugins simply don't have to press that button, the ones who don't just press the button
The amount of time saved from tweaking the volume knob so it sits at zero or as close as humanly possible on the VU meter would be huge
Just imagine browsing through presets and they're all at the same volume, it would be amazing no ?
- KVRAF
- 7325 posts since 9 Jan, 2003 from Saint Louis MO
The plugin can't predict if you're going to:
-- never send a full velocity note on
-- if using pressure, never send full pressure
-- do parameter automation that has an effect on the output level
-- only play notes at frequencies that happen to be naturally quieter than peak
So in many cases, the amount of time saved would be... zero
-- never send a full velocity note on
-- if using pressure, never send full pressure
-- do parameter automation that has an effect on the output level
-- only play notes at frequencies that happen to be naturally quieter than peak
So in many cases, the amount of time saved would be... zero
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thecontrolcentre thecontrolcentre https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=76240
- KVRAF
- 35098 posts since 27 Jul, 2005 from the wilds of wanny
Couldn't you use a utility plugin? Most DAWs have one built in afaik.
- KVRian
- Topic Starter
- 1293 posts since 21 Nov, 2018
Ok you misunderstood, it would be a button that doesn't let the audio exceed the select gain stage volume, so obviously velocity sensitive notes would be based on whatever their velocity with 100% velocity being the gain stage volume and everything else calculated below thatfoosnark wrote: ↑Thu Jan 21, 2021 8:43 pm The plugin can't predict if you're going to:
-- never send a full velocity note on
-- if using pressure, never send full pressure
-- do parameter automation that has an effect on the output level
-- only play notes at frequencies that happen to be naturally quieter than peak
So in many cases, the amount of time saved would be... zero
Likewise with parameter, the max volume would be the gain stage volume anything lower be whatever % within the parameter
It's not really complex when it's basicaly just a function of % of a max volume
The only time I ever raise the volume on a VST is when I've gone too far in lowering it for gain staging
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thecontrolcentre thecontrolcentre https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=76240
- KVRAF
- 35098 posts since 27 Jul, 2005 from the wilds of wanny
- KVRian
- Topic Starter
- 1293 posts since 21 Nov, 2018
No, a gain reduction that sets that maximum possible volume to -18dfs (or the RMS k scales) limiter would introduce soft clipping for anything that goes above the threshold
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- KVRAF
- 2625 posts since 2 Jun, 2016
In theory, probably a nice idea for customers.
But practically speaking, I can't see (m)any developers being too bothered about this because loudness sells products (presets) and it's just an extra hassle to code with potential for yet another thing not working perfectly across different platforms.
But practically speaking, I can't see (m)any developers being too bothered about this because loudness sells products (presets) and it's just an extra hassle to code with potential for yet another thing not working perfectly across different platforms.
- KVRAF
- 25310 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds
Or play 1 note vs a 5 note chord...foosnark wrote: ↑Thu Jan 21, 2021 8:43 pm The plugin can't predict if you're going to:
-- never send a full velocity note on
-- if using pressure, never send full pressure
-- do parameter automation that has an effect on the output level
-- only play notes at frequencies that happen to be naturally quieter than peak
So in many cases, the amount of time saved would be... zero
Like you said, a plugin cannot know what you are going to do before you do it.
- KVRian
- Topic Starter
- 1293 posts since 21 Nov, 2018
It's relative volume thoughpdxindy wrote: ↑Thu Jan 21, 2021 9:52 pmOr play 1 note vs a 5 note chord...foosnark wrote: ↑Thu Jan 21, 2021 8:43 pm The plugin can't predict if you're going to:
-- never send a full velocity note on
-- if using pressure, never send full pressure
-- do parameter automation that has an effect on the output level
-- only play notes at frequencies that happen to be naturally quieter than peak
So in many cases, the amount of time saved would be... zero
Like you said, a plugin cannot know what you are going to do before you do it.
The result I want now is achieved by turning down the volume, why is it so complex or even alien to some people to have a button that just turns the volume down relative to a set max amount ?
40% at max volume or user asigned volume is still 40% the relative ratio is kept all that's lowered is the max volume possible, it should not in anyway have any effect on dynamics as it's simply reducing gain
- KVRAF
- 25310 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds
Where does the definition of the max amount come from? The only way the VST would know what the max volume would be is by self analysis and running through all permutations of playable notes, max polyphony, controllers like modwheel, aftertouch, etc. It would also have to account for slowly evolving envelopes as one of the parameters.
There would be nothing simple about that gain staging button.
And if you decided to play that preset differently than its guess for max volume, then you would have to manually adjust gain anyway.
- KVRian
- Topic Starter
- 1293 posts since 21 Nov, 2018
It's all maths & ratios though isn't it ?pdxindy wrote: ↑Fri Jan 22, 2021 12:16 amWhere does the definition of the max amount come from? The only way the VST would know what the max volume would be is by self analysis and running through all permutations of playable notes, max polyphony, controllers like modwheel, aftertouch, etc. It would also have to account for slowly evolving envelopes as one of the parameters.
There would be nothing simple about that gain staging button.
And if you decided to play that preset differently than its guess for max volume, then you would have to manually adjust gain anyway.
the volume of 5 chords is a ratio relative to 3 chords to a single note
same with polyphony, modwheel, aftertouch it's all ultimately mathematical within the box, set a standard where max possible volume is all the things, then just calculate the ratio of what things are used vs max possible volume to then calculate where peak should be relative to chosen gain stage volume. There's plugins that do this that work fast enough, so why not just a button that does it on the synth to save time having to add the plugin and disabling/removing it after adjusting volume in the synth.
I don't understand why you're appearing averse to a time saving solution
- KVRAF
- 25310 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds
- KVRAF
- 5131 posts since 22 Jul, 2006 from Tasmania, Australia
hehe
It's a button that changes the volume, I think it's possible
--so it changes it to what u ask--
weeell
the simple answer is another volume
just messing sorry
I think it could be done, the button push reads current rms, then adjusts a certain amount away(down) from the master gain, then reads that, now we can adjust master gain to an rms value which user/dev has input with these 3 figures