The Favorite Analog Synthesizer Emulations

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
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KVRAF
18467 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Post Fri Feb 26, 2021 9:21 pm

BONES wrote:
Fri Feb 26, 2021 4:23 pm
pdxindy wrote:
Fri Feb 26, 2021 9:56 am
Some advantages are self evident and some have already been discussed
No, every point you have attempted to make has been easily refuted.
You saying you disagree over and over is not refutation... just your own biased opinion.

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GRRRRRRR!
11217 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle

Post Fri Feb 26, 2021 10:37 pm

Except anyone can prove it for themselves. You only have to walk into a shop, for example, and change the patch on a Minilogue to see that none of the controls move to reflect the values of the parameters in the patch, which makes having all those knobs, sliders and switches a waste of time. Anyone can look at the price of an OB-6 and know immediately that it can't possibly offer anywhere near the value of Obsession. The name alone tells you it doesn't even have half the polyphony.

Of course, the easiest thing of all would be for me to spend an evening recording some hardware to show that it doesn't sound nearly as good. Although I imagine you would suggest that I had done something to deliberately make it sound bad. For the sake of discussion it would be much better if you were to provide us some samples of things that you don't think could be matched in software, instead of the nebulous claims of it being "better" that you have so far supplied. But I'm not going to hold my breath on that front because I am pretty sure that, deep down, you know you don't have a leg to stand on.
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KVRian
616 posts since 9 Aug, 2018

Post Sat Feb 27, 2021 12:05 am

I don’t turn to software when I want a classic analog synth sound (let alone experience). That’s where software is subpar. Usable, but subpar.

I do, however, sometimes use VA synths that are not trying to emulate specific hardware. In my opinion, this gives them the freedom to be better VAs. More useful for me, anyway.

It’s pretty subjective, for the most part. But as for emulations being “perfect”, no. They’re simply not. Does that matter? Case by case, according to needs.

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KVRAF
5851 posts since 13 Nov, 2015 from Norway

Post Sat Feb 27, 2021 4:23 am

layzer wrote:
Fri Feb 26, 2021 1:25 pm
Halonmusic wrote:
Fri Feb 26, 2021 12:17 am
MLVST PG8X (Roland JX8P)
:love: PG8X :love:

leave it to HAL to finally mention it!

and i still love arturia minimoogV
Hell yeah! Great synth that! :love: Not tried MinimoogV, only Minimoog emu i have is the Elektrostudio one. Not shure how close it is but i quite like that one.
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KVRist
315 posts since 4 May, 2019

Post Sat Feb 27, 2021 7:04 am

BONES wrote:
Fri Feb 26, 2021 10:37 pm
Except anyone can prove it for themselves. You only have to walk into a shop, for example, and change the patch on a Minilogue to see that none of the controls move to reflect the values of the parameters in the patch, which makes having all those knobs, sliders and switches a waste of time. Anyone can look at the price of an OB-6 and know immediately that it can't possibly offer anywhere near the value of Obsession. The name alone tells you it doesn't even have half the polyphony.

Of course, the easiest thing of all would be for me to spend an evening recording some hardware to show that it doesn't sound nearly as good. Although I imagine you would suggest that I had done something to deliberately make it sound bad. For the sake of discussion it would be much better if you were to provide us some samples of things that you don't think could be matched in software, instead of the nebulous claims of it being "better" that you have so far supplied. But I'm not going to hold my breath on that front because I am pretty sure that, deep down, you know you don't have a leg to stand on.
What a load of hot garbage. I’ve been a 100% ITB artist for almost a decade. Before that I had a Sherman Filterbank, a mixer, a SH101, a Juno 60 and a Moogerfooger delay in my rig. I played more than 100 gigs with my band with these and recorded six albums and know them forward and backwards. As good as I am at gainstaging and mixing and for all the work I’ve done is setting up the Drop and softsynths etc, I still can’t replicate the sound of my MIXER, much less the sound of my single oscillator analog synth. I have borrowed a Prophet 6 for a project from a friend and I can tell you this: it sounds like nothing else I’ve ever touched and it sits in a mix like nothing else I’ve ever recorded. Yes, hardware is expensive, yes, it is a pain in the ass, yes for some things it isn’t worth the effort, but it is clear that it can sound better than software, and have a more immediate workflow. Perhaps it is a difference in genre: my music is quiet and the synths are gentle and up front. I can see how music like Boneses might not show the character of a synth so much. What a silly argument to make.

As for examples, this pretty much says it all. Not only does this sound astounding, it is easy to see how these instruments support nuance and expression in this performance: https://youtu.be/H9UzNh_2TXk
Last edited by Noumena on Sat Feb 27, 2021 8:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

KVRist
315 posts since 4 May, 2019

Post Sat Feb 27, 2021 7:08 am

In contrast here is Bones making the case for software:

https://youtu.be/0PVoS-V9aRc

KVRist
315 posts since 4 May, 2019

Post Sat Feb 27, 2021 7:17 am

As for me, I think Softube’s Model 72 is truly remarkable and use Uhe Diva and Pro-1 a lot.

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KVRist
189 posts since 11 Oct, 2012

Post Sat Feb 27, 2021 7:31 am

Noumena wrote:
Sat Feb 27, 2021 7:04 am
nuance and expression
That's why people get MPE controllers or something like QuNeo or mi.mu gloves to control their softsynths.

Nice video though, very relaxing stuff and I always love to hear a theremin played well!

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KVRAF
18467 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Post Sat Feb 27, 2021 8:18 am

BONES wrote:
Fri Feb 26, 2021 10:37 pm
Except anyone can prove it for themselves. You only have to walk into a shop, for example, and change the patch on a Minilogue to see that none of the controls move to reflect the values of the parameters in the patch, which makes having all those knobs, sliders and switches a waste of time.
And yet miraculously, I can still reach out to the filter cutoff knob on the Minilogue and change filter cutoff if needed. Same with the other knobby parameters. And that is still significantly better than not having any such capability at all like software.

You are grasping now.

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KVRAF
18467 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Post Sat Feb 27, 2021 8:31 am

metaside wrote:
Sat Feb 27, 2021 7:31 am
Noumena wrote:
Sat Feb 27, 2021 7:04 am
nuance and expression
That's why people get MPE controllers or something like QuNeo or mi.mu gloves to control their softsynths.

Nice video though, very relaxing stuff and I always love to hear a theremin played well!
Yeah, I have 2 MPE controllers and they are wonderful! MPE is a fantastic advance!

But that is for controlling the playing and expression of notes. A 1:1 (or mostly so) hardware interface allows another kind of expression so that while someone is playing they can adjust various knobs to control Osc sync, or filter resonance, etc.

Yes, one can set up some macros on a midi controller to control some common parameters, but in the creative moment, that might not be the one they want to control. Also, the hardware interface being dedicated, it doesn't change. That makes it easier to develop muscle memory and be able to adjust a parameter without looking.

In that JMJ performance, all the musicians were adjusting things throughout... tweaking a parameter. That would be hard to do with software.

I love my softsynths and wouldn't want to be without them. I'm not a hardware zealot. I do recognize that it has some advantages, just like software also has some advantages. I'm glad to have both.

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KVRAF
5424 posts since 6 Jan, 2017 from Outer Space

Post Sat Feb 27, 2021 8:48 am

I don’t see why a piece like JMJ Oxygene could not be performed in the box with the same sound quality. But to play it like that, you need to setup a controller with as many knobs as the original for each emulation. But I doubt it would be easier than setting up the real thing. With this kind of effort the price for the hardware is not the biggest part of the budget... The plugin version would make it easy to replicate each sound exactly as required fast and again and again, but you would skip the tuning in part for the space you are in. Don’t underestimate the subtleties which actually require a slightly different sound for each space. Calling up presets could make you lazy... Of course JMJ needs a different atmosphere, preparation and mind set than BONES... (I like his music as well btw...)

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KVRist
189 posts since 11 Oct, 2012

Post Sat Feb 27, 2021 9:02 am

pdxindy wrote:
Sat Feb 27, 2021 8:31 am
But that is for controlling the playing and expression of notes. A 1:1 (or mostly so) hardware interface allows another kind of expression so that while someone is playing they can adjust various knobs to control Osc sync, or filter resonance, etc.

Yes, one can set up some macros on a midi controller to control some common parameters, but in the creative moment, that might not be the one they want to control. Also, the hardware interface being dedicated, it doesn't change. That makes it easier to develop muscle memory and be able to adjust a parameter without looking.

In that JMJ performance, all the musicians were adjusting things throughout... tweaking a parameter. That would be hard to do with software.

I love my softsynths and wouldn't want to be without them. I'm not a hardware zealot. I do recognize that it has some advantages, just like software also has some advantages. I'm glad to have both.
Yeah, all good points! I don't think it's necessarily that relevant for studio production, since you can take a few seconds to put new parameters on all your MIDI controls, automate or correct stuff after the fact and so on, but imho def something very important to consider for live shows!

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addled muppet weed
76593 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass

Post Sat Feb 27, 2021 9:49 am

Noumena wrote:
Sat Feb 27, 2021 7:08 am
In contrast here is Bones making the case for software:

https://youtu.be/0PVoS-V9aRc
bones may be a little rude and often wrong.
he also won't thank me for this (and nor do i expect him to, i like him as he is to a certain extent :hihi:)

but a) it's never good to try to use someone's music against them in an argument. especially if you are not going to put your own and not some "legend".of your choosing.

and b) do you think that's even a fair comparison?
you could have at least pulled out some analogue version of bones music, or soft versions of the jarre sounds :shrug:

talk about apples vs orangutans! let alone oranges!

KVRist
315 posts since 4 May, 2019

Post Sat Feb 27, 2021 9:59 am

1. first -- Bones does nothing but punch down. He deserves to be put in the stocks and for everyone to take a turn giving him one in the nose. Your point is valid for literally everyone else on this forum. He insults people and silences natural and good dialogue here -- reducing the value of the forum for the community in the process.
2. my point is that, as is often the case with good ol B, his perspective is valid for the kind of music he makes. He has argued against the usefulness of polyphony, MPE, gainstaging and a whole list of other things and now the idea that hardware synths might have something over software. I can see a truth in all his claims if the only kind of music was his music. I feel it is proper for the audience here to see the difference.
3. I picked the best song I could find as an example. There is no inherent criticism of his music in my post -- just, as always, a strong indication that his music and his taste are specific and that that this qualifies his claims of being the arbiter of truth as total bullsh*t. Frankly I'm beyond tired of it and can't understand why he hasn't been banned.

On topic: I also think that Reason (and Reason Rack's) Complex west coast style modular synth is an astoundingly fresh and brilliant digital recreation of analogue stuff. It sounds so crisp and has tremendous depth -- it's easy to miss for non-Reason users, but is really remarkable.

KVRAF
27666 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Post Sat Feb 27, 2021 10:05 am

Noumena wrote:
Sat Feb 27, 2021 9:59 am
1. first -- Bones does nothing but punch down. He deserves to be put in the stocks and for everyone to take a turn giving him one in the nose. Your point is valid for literally everyone else on this forum.
2. my point is that, as is often the case with good ol B, his perspective is valid for the kind of music he makes. He has argued against the usefulness of polyphony, MPE, gainstaging and a whole list of other things and now the idea that hardware synths might have something over software. I can see a truth in all his claims if the only kind of music was his music. I feel it is proper for the audience here to see the difference.
3. I picked the best song I could find as an example. There is no inherent criticism of his music in my post -- just, as always, a strong indication that his music and his taste are specific and that that this qualifies his claims of being the arbiter of truth as total bullsh*t. Frankly I'm beyond tired of it and can't understand why he hasn't been banned.
Try to take his posts with a pinch of salt. I'm sure they're meant that way. ;)
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