very strange opinion. surge is a good example, free, and great. dexed.wagtunes wrote: ↑Wed Mar 17, 2021 7:00 pmAs a software developer (before I retired) I can tell you that the amount of time that's needed to put into coding anything CAN be astronomical.rezoneight wrote: ↑Wed Mar 17, 2021 6:51 pmNo I don't agree with him at all. He said "But don't expect a $29 synth to have the features and sound of a $129 synth.". Why not? GForce decided to charge $155 (not 129..its in British Pounds) for whatever reason they did. Maybe their volume is low enough that they need that pricing. Cherry has a much larger catalog. Maybe thats why they chose the $29 price point. Who knows. But his statement is wrong.chk071 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 17, 2021 6:40 pmYou don't necessarily disagree with him though with that assessment. If you say that it's a code change to something they already have then, well, you get what you paid for, basically.rezoneight wrote: ↑Wed Mar 17, 2021 6:26 pmThis is a ridiculous comparison. There is no manufacturing of any kind involved in the plugin. Its a code change to something *they already have*.wagtunes wrote: ↑Wed Mar 17, 2021 1:09 pm For those who claim that price should not be a factor in suggesting improvements, let me give you a perfect example of why you're just plain wrong.
You go into a supermarket and there are 2 rolls of toilet paper. One costs 10 cents for the roll and the other costs 50 cents for the roll. You buy the cheaper one and find that it's hard and sandpaper like. You write to the company suggesting that they make the toilet paper softer and that would make it better. They respond by telling you that if they did that, they would have to raise the price. So if you want the toilet paper at this price, then it is what it is.
Why is it so difficult for people to understand this?
You get what you pay for, and sometimes not even. And yes, in some cases, you get more than what you paid for it. But don't expect a $29 synth to have the features and sound of a $129 synth. It is NOT going to happen except in very rare instances.
But in the particular case Arashi was talking about they already have the linked mode so its a small change to do what he's talking about. Its not like retooling manufacturing for a different kind of paper. Now whether they decided to do it or not is a totally different story. But this desire by some on here to act like this would be moving mountains in time or cost simply have no clue what they're talking about. I've been fortunate enough to have both worked in manufacturing of various kinds and in software development. There is no similarity at all. There is nothing wrong with suggesting updates here regardless of what the cost is.
The truth is, you have NO idea how long it would take Cherry Audio to make all the changes that people here have suggested, with I'm sure more to come. That means man hours. Time is money, whether you want to acknowledge that or not. When i coded, some things I was told NOT to do because it was NOT cost efficient.
That is the reality of our business that you don't seem to want to acknowledge at all.
the money does not matter.
and i know a software developer that overhauled his VST instrument within a weekend, to make it fully MPE, it took that long, because of how bitwig calls, every minute, the preset state..
diving into bitwig it took, for the developer.
cost of that vst instrument: €40 in sale, €60 normal.
what he has done, in his own time, next to his job, he improved his instrument with many new features, new possibilities, he even overhauled it's basic "engine". no charge.
what a vst instrument cost is totally irrelevant.
kv331 Synthmaster 2 is another example, mostly about $29, the latest version, is a complete redesign, or complete, almost complete... an example most people on KVR will know of.
for free! yes version 3, will cost you. but the changes made in the latest version; it seems already 3 version, and it took time.
but if you code right, in an orderly fashion, for yourself as a developer.
this is the strangest discussion.
yes i own a VST instrument that costs €249, a niche thing.
and i own, in the similair synthesis domain, a VST instrument, that costed me €18... in a sale.. the last one, are still improving that version. and it already was much improved, before i bought it.
there are coders, or teams, that work very slow, there are coders that can work very fast (not only because of JUCE), but because you know, even if it is 15.000 lines, and it can reprogram itself... where everything is, and you build your debugger, and it can be used by users as a debugger...
take a look at Cypher 2, finally the most bugs gone, but window has closed, too many projects... swamped.. great synth by the way, and only €50... if you know the ways..
there are DAW's that have bugs for years, big teams, lot of programmers, perhaps even more managers.... (and that..), they can resolve it, i think they like too, sometimes you can hear one silently scream.. but... progress, new features. updates.. and yes i own those DAW's.
expensive, but sometimes a bugfix, costs you an update, and now you think, do you see what i mean, no you don't; all major DAW's, are almost all, there are exceptions; the strategy, features that are already ready a half year before launch, could easily made as an update for the existing version, or features! fixes, better integration of 'stuff'. etc. things you expect in maintenance updates.. but they come with features in a new version...
coding; i have had always the feeling; programming, yes you can learn it, but to be good programmer; talent, experience, indeed study, but talent! there aren't that many good programmers, enough, but surrounded by.. o well..
but that is not the main problem: managers...
Cherry Audio manage their own stuff. no overhead, no stockholders. and make the plugins cheap, so, attractive to buy. great strategy.
does that mean, you can't be critical, or say this isn't right; they did improved the CA2600, they try to improve VM, it works, but still... and i use VM a lot, a lot.
prices can also be shiny, if it is expensive it is good, if it is inexpensive it can't be good?
sometimes pricetags are quite extreme, yes that VST instrument for €249... and it is a niche thing, and not avenger, or omnisphere, that can do a lot. it can only do.... but what i can, it can do...
still you can question the pricing policy, even users that love the program, do it.
DS thorn, €18, knifononium (do i spell it right), €18, LION, €18, oberhausen, €18.
yes the half year, or year before, the price is much higher. i only paid for LION, a amount bigger, than you expect for a PA plugin, but hey it is unfiltered audio, by the way, there plugins, before they joined PA, where pretty cheap, writes someone here, on KVR.
NI: komplete, with the right road, except for the price of a maschine mk3; cheap! per instrument!
arturia, cheap per instrument, cheaper than cherry audio... (bought JUP-8 V4, as upgrade from collection, for €14, and still have V3.. so cheaper than cherry audio.... yes arturia has another game, that covers their income, the collection.. and seperate instruments.. so.. not quite a good analogy, but still...).
you now that you can buy affinity photo for around $30 (i bought it for €29 or so), the latest update, massive.. free...
so pricing strategy, depends on???
Vital is also a nice example... how does that work, mytell, listens, of course, he wants a good product. you can get it free, subscription, plus or pro. and the 'open source' variant, isn't that open source, but still...
also cherry audio wants that, that there products are good.
there are more examples of great instruments that are available at very low prices, Glitchmachines for examples, also their effects; they depend on their soundpacks and other things.
and bulk!
is G-Force really worth the price? is audio damage quanta really worth $100 (in sale around €40...).
you must know about the madness of price; eventide, is also a good example, if you sit tight, cheap. the normal price...
there are no normal prices in ITB land.
and cherry audio has to compete with oberhausen, SEM V3, and synapse? mmmh that is another synth..
cherry has to compete with arturia. and other great forces for emulations.
this is there strategy, does that mean, cheap, so don't expect a synth that outguns G-Force one?
strange opinion. i would glad build an emulation that outguns the best emulation, and give it away for free.. if i could do DSP development, hahaha. no talent for it.
curious, in what field where you a software developer, because their are a lot of fields.
in a way your opinion does not seem strange, but we all now; put a brand on it, it doubles, or more the price; coca-cola. i buy the cheapest cola... 3 bottles for the price of one coca-cola bottle. yes, there overhead... and stockholders, and more...
or rebranding, the same thing cheaper... (not illegal rebranding, rebranding is quite old, the same thing cheaper, exactly the same thing, but with another name... not always cheaper by the way, but most of the times. all oled screens are made by LG, in a way rebranding.
philips does not make tv's, yes there are philips monitors/tv's. they licensed their name, philips has turned in some kind of stockholder company, with only real one main core businnes, health care, equipment..)
hee TL;DR! i am back, and quite uninteresting. i am. gladly.
@ramseysounds; this is KVR! strangely, why do i care? give me insights into spectral synthesis, give me algorithms, knowledge, music.
the last time i will reply, the KVR way! i promiss! like a politician!
