Any love for Dmitry Sches Thorn?

[ferez21]

I cant help but feel if this synth hadn't gone to PA it would have had a lot more development.

I doubt it. Diversion's last updates has been beginning of 2016, for example. And, AFAIK, it didn't have any groundbreaking changes either.

synthmaster is sampled oscillators.

But it sounds great too

Arguable.

Welll... maybe a developer can chime in, and explain it, but, the way I alwasy understood it is, that calculating the waveforms like Thorn does (should be the same as in wavetable synths) is more CPU heavy, and, especially, more CPU heavy than using sampled oscillators.

I'm actually a bit surprised though. Does Synthmaster really do that? I thought that at least the basic waveforms are calculated, not sampled.

Not sure what exactly is arguable, let's just use our ears, and in case you think Synthmast isn't a good example, you can replace it with Sylenth 1 or DUNE (1, 2 or 3) which i doubt anyone can argue how good they sound, while having a very low CPU footprint.

[chk071]

There's more to it than just the way oscillators are generated/calculated. What oversampling does it use? Does it offer audio rate modulation? How complex is analog modelling for the filters? Are thre certaijn parts of the audio engine which run the whole time, even when idling? Etc. pp.

Arguing that this takes less CPU than that isn't really sufficient. If Synthmaster already calculates the oscillators in a different way, I don't want to know how much else is running different under its hood. Of course, some synths are better optimized than others as well. And, yes, Dmitry's synths take quite a lot of CPU. Diversion is hardly usable for me, for example. But, again, there are many variables, and it doesn't all have to have to do with lack of optimization.

[Dasheesh]

the only way you are getting thorne lower is to start cutting back on performance. i would actually prefer it to be adjustable audio rates tbh, but that would only make it use that much more cpu. i would also like it to get rid of the stepping in oscillator frequency, but that's imbedded due to presets at this point.

[Jazzguitar]

I cant help but feel if this synth hadn't gone to PA it would have had a lot more development.

I can understand you, but please don't lose the big expectations on Thorn, I personally know Dmitry, and I can assure that his genius mind and love for synths and electronic is tireless working on improvements and updates for all his products, such as the amazing Tantra and Diversion, and Thorn of course.  But....

DSAUDIO is a single-man company. The hard times that the planet lives nowadays and the particular critical situation of some countries could make development very difficult, especially for indie developers.  So the deal with third parties resellers and merchants makes a lot of sense.

It is important to note that PA is only the distribution and sales manager for Thorn and has nothing to do with the development of it. Thorn still is announced in DSAUDIO  https://dmitrysches.com/products/thorn

The quality of Dmitry plugins is such that important industry names offer their soundsets and preset libraries from releases time.

[ferez21]

There's more to it than just the way oscillators are generated/calculated. What oversampling does it use? Does it offer audio rate modulation? How complex is analog modelling for the filters? Are thre certaijn parts of the audio engine which run the whole time, even when idling? Etc. pp.

Arguing that this takes less CPU than that isn't really sufficient. If Synthmaster already calculates the oscillators in a different way, I don't want to know how much else is running different under its hood. Of course, some synths are better optimized than others as well. And, yes, Dmitry's synths take quite a lot of CPU. Diversion is hardly usable for me, for example. But, again, there are many variables, and it doesn't all have to have to do with lack of optimization.

I get that, i get that for the architecture he chose to use, it might be the most optimised, version of what it is, but if this architecture doesn't give any perceivable sound quality benefits, and in exchange hogs so much CPU power, whats the point?

[crickey13]

it's the only modern software instrument that works correctly at the moment

[chk071]

There's more to it than just the way oscillators are generated/calculated. What oversampling does it use? Does it offer audio rate modulation? How complex is analog modelling for the filters? Are thre certaijn parts of the audio engine which run the whole time, even when idling? Etc. pp.

Arguing that this takes less CPU than that isn't really sufficient. If Synthmaster already calculates the oscillators in a different way, I don't want to know how much else is running different under its hood. Of course, some synths are better optimized than others as well. And, yes, Dmitry's synths take quite a lot of CPU. Diversion is hardly usable for me, for example. But, again, there are many variables, and it doesn't all have to have to do with lack of optimization.

I get that, i get that for the architecture he chose to use, it might be the most optimised, version of what it is, but if this architecture doesn't give any perceivable sound quality benefits, and in exchange hogs so much CPU power, whats the point?

Actually, I agree with you. If you feel like it doesn't give you any perceivable sound quality benefits, there's no point in using it really. Although I would argue that they sound different enough to make that less of a consideration.

For example, there are a lot of synths which use less CPU than Massive X. But few which can sound better than it, which kind of devalues the CPU argument for me.

Diversion on the other hand could be the best sounding synth of all times, and I still couldn't use it, because it simply brings my CPU to its knees with a simple one oscillator sine wave patch...

[Effectsworks]

i'm being told diversion 2 has been in the works.

Great news if true!

[Jazzguitar]

i'm being told diversion 2 has been in the works.

Great news if true!

I think all are on a list agenda, but surely the release order is kinda a industrial secret

[vurt]

i'm being told diversion 2 has been in the works.

Great news if true!

the voices in dash's head, do not lie!

[ferez21]

There's more to it than just the way oscillators are generated/calculated. What oversampling does it use? Does it offer audio rate modulation? How complex is analog modelling for the filters? Are thre certaijn parts of the audio engine which run the whole time, even when idling? Etc. pp.

Arguing that this takes less CPU than that isn't really sufficient. If Synthmaster already calculates the oscillators in a different way, I don't want to know how much else is running different under its hood. Of course, some synths are better optimized than others as well. And, yes, Dmitry's synths take quite a lot of CPU. Diversion is hardly usable for me, for example. But, again, there are many variables, and it doesn't all have to have to do with lack of optimization.

I get that, i get that for the architecture he chose to use, it might be the most optimised, version of what it is, but if this architecture doesn't give any perceivable sound quality benefits, and in exchange hogs so much CPU power, whats the point?

Actually, I agree with you. If you feel like it doesn't give you any perceivable sound quality benefits, there's no point in using it really. Although I would argue that they sound different enough to make that less of a consideration.

For example, there are a lot of synths which use less CPU than Massive X. But few which can sound better than it, which kind of devalues the CPU argument for me.

Diversion on the other hand could be the best sounding synth of all times, and I still couldn't use it, because it simply brings my CPU to its knees with a simple one oscillator sine wave patch...

Raw sound quality wise, I find Thorn comparable to other synths i like, which is a good thing, i love the harmonic filter and the workflow, this could have easily been my go-to synth if it used less CPU power, that was my purpose when i bought it not too long ago
Same goes for Diversion too.
the only developer that can get away with CPU hogging is U-He but he is a much larger scale developer i guess.

[Effectsworks]

i'm being told diversion 2 has been in the works.

Great news if true!

the voices in dash's head, do not lie!

Well that has made my evening.

[BONES]

synthmaster is sampled oscillators.

But it sounds great too, what difference does it make for the end user?

Does it? I don't think it does. I've had it for a couple of years and every time I've tried to find a use for it, it has failed. It's not terrible but I don't think it sounds as good as Thorn.

Not sure what exactly is arguable, let's just use our ears, and in case you think Synthmast isn't a good example, you can replace it with Sylenth 1 or DUNE (1, 2 or 3) which i doubt anyone can argue how good they sound, while having a very low CPU footprint.

Synthmaster might sound as good as Sylenth 1, which I don't like the sound of much at all, but it's not in the same league as DUNE.

[ferez21]

synthmaster is sampled oscillators.

But it sounds great too, what difference does it make for the end user?

Does it? I don't think it does. I've had it for a couple of years and every time I've tried to find a use for it, it has failed. It's not terrible but I don't think it sounds as good as Thorn.

Not sure what exactly is arguable, let's just use our ears, and in case you think Synthmast isn't a good example, you can replace it with Sylenth 1 or DUNE (1, 2 or 3) which i doubt anyone can argue how good they sound, while having a very low CPU footprint.

Synthmaster might sound as good as Sylenth 1, which I don't like the sound of much at all, but it's not in the same league as DUNE.

Well, the same point persists, let's compare it to DUNE since you like its sound, a vst synth can sound great without hogging the CPU, and using some complicated architecture to achieve an end result that has no perceivable benefits doesn't make sense to me.

[nusound mind]

Good to see others are digging Thorn too. Diversion was the first soft synth I got where the sound really blew me away. I'm also in the minority I guess in that it's probably my favorite gui of any synth, if only you could resize it (and the cpu hunger wasn't so intense) it'd be perfect.

That said if I needed one for bass duty I'd probably reach for Thorn first over Diversion.