Daft Punk - Giorgio by Moroder outro sound, how?

How to make that sound...
KVRist
63 posts since 16 Nov, 2011

Post Mon Apr 12, 2021 9:47 am

I heard this kind of sound before, but idk the technical name and how to recreate it.

https://youtu.be/zhl-Cs1-sG4?t=529 (8:50)

Thanks in advance!

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Suspended
269 posts since 4 Dec, 2019

Post Mon Apr 12, 2021 1:47 pm

I believe part of it is called a "riser", some effect that goes up in pitch. It is followed by what I believe they might call a "downlifter", if you like. This is the opposite effect. When both are combined I also don't know yet if there's a good term for it. Maybe some kind of a "pitch sweep"? I would call it like that atm for lack of better terms. I'm sure someone will come along who knows more about it and leave a comment...

All of these fx effects are most typically used for transitions.
BTW: much respect to Giorgio Moroder, another one I should include on my list for having created some of the best synth sounds, e. g. in his song "the chase". He's like the father of synth to many!
Anyways, risers are used to create tension, e. g. before a "drop", whereas downlifters may rather be used to release tension, e. g. to prepare listeners for something new, e. g. at the end of a song. Sometimes producers put a transition to the end of their song so as to make it easier as a DJ to transition to the next song. It's a good strategy...

But how do you recreate it, then? Usually with LFOs.
There are a couple of things going on in the sound itself, so it may not just be a one dimensional sound, but for its very pitch movement I think I can hear a "gating effect" as well as a rise and fall. The gating effect kind of interrupts the sound in between and makes it have short breaks in between. For this you could use an LFO which has the shape of a square or a pulse wave and apply it to the volume. This effect, however, also changes in speed towards the end, so one may have to automate its speed as well, slow down the amount of HZ of the LFO that controls it as the sound evolves in time.

I'll try to explore the sound a bit further and try to recreate it. It's good practice to me...
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269 posts since 4 Dec, 2019

Post Mon Apr 12, 2021 4:14 pm

To start with you can use 2 saw waves, with one being an octave higher than the other.
I put unison (all 16 voices) on both, detuning at 0.05 for the lower one, 0.13 for the higher octave, in any case both shouldn't be too much off center.
Apply a (Moog style or State Variant won't matter too much) low pass filter, probably 18 dB/oct steep, at around 1K for both oscs.
Use a special type of noise, like in Serum there's one called "CynMicBleed", pitch 49%, got the level at 54%, so that sounds close enough to it.
This already comes close to the basic sound to start with which is already good, so you have something to start with.

Now it'll become much more difficult and complex. Hear that moving kind of lower pitched noise in the background? It sounds a bit like an animal that, like me atm, has a small amount of tooth ache that will go away soon and as the riser sets in it's already gone. Not sure yet if this is a second layer or if it can be integrated via filter movements. Flanger and Phaser do not seem to work for it, but it's just a detail...

I believe several filters may actually sweep through here to result in the more obvious sound in the foreground as the sweeps set in. One of them MIGHT be a B/P/N 24, i. e. a very steep filter with much of resonance on it. I don't know exactly how and which filters work together here but there's lots of resonance involved and the bandwith does narrow down more and more. It's probably complex. The accentuated frequencies also seem to go up in semitones rather than just continuously to get a more musical effect, but this also further adds to the complexity...

I'll try to find out more about it tomorrow. It's again a sound that cannot be recreated in 5 minutes' time. As always, people who would like to join in here and who think they can help with their expertise and knowledge would be highly appreciated.
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269 posts since 4 Dec, 2019

Post Tue Apr 13, 2021 4:51 am

It would probably be best to use a preset as described above (which plays on midi note A1) and then automate filter sweeps with external plugins in your DAW so as to control the rather complex filter movements and changes in parameters.
A similar bandpass/peak/notch 24dB/oct filter as the one offered in Serum would have to be automated, matching up with the same speed as in the original. It would have to start at about 168 HZ with some resonance building up (to about 73%) and then sweep up to 1000HZ. As it does so it gradually increases its resonance value to a higher level (about 95%) and it also narrows down in its bandwidth parameter (morph knob in Serum). This all happens at the same time in thus rather multidimensional ways.
Once the riser has been done you'd have to animate the subsequent downlifter effect in your DAW.
For this it seems to me as if the cutoff frequency closes back down to 168 HZ again, but it does so in synch with a pitch fall on both oscs.

That's my analysis of this sound but I'm not yet 100% sure about it and it would have to be tested out as suggested. With this being said, I would like to have a second or third opinion on it. There may be an easier or another way that leads to the same or better results...

(Furthermore, I could not yet find out how to integrate the short pieces of background sounds you can hear at the start if this is possible without having to create a second sound on top of this one.)
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KVRer
9 posts since 11 Feb, 2021

Post Thu Apr 15, 2021 2:50 am

This sounds cool! Must try it out :)

KVRian
1057 posts since 3 Nov, 2010

Post Thu Apr 15, 2021 3:56 am

The main issue will be the filter in any vst that I can think of.
Perhaps Diva can do this but it's the filter that will give the right/wrong character.

When you pitch down the sound of the saw and have and keep the filter on the right place it will create those tom like sounds at the end so you have to lower the pitch and drop the filter frequency.

I tried it the other night in Vital but just wasn't right so I never posted it but using eq and filters can get you close but I strongly recommend an actual analog synthesizer and it's filter
Last edited by CHOOS on Sat Apr 17, 2021 3:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
CHOOSX Remakes on my Youtube Channel

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269 posts since 4 Dec, 2019

Post Thu Apr 15, 2021 4:31 am

CHOOS wrote:
Thu Apr 15, 2021 3:56 am
The main issue will be the filter in any vst that I can think of.
Perhaps Diva can do this but it's the filter that will give the right/wrong character.

When you pitch down the sound of the saw and have and keeo the filter on the right place it will create those tom like sounds at the end so you have to lower the pitch and drop the filter frequency.

I tried it the other night in Vital but just wasn't right so I never posted it but using eq and filters can get you close but I strongly recommend an actual analog synthesizer and it's filter
What do you think of my approach to use external filters (as fx plugins)? Could work, couldn't it? Is there anything you might want to do differently as far as the details are concerned? I'm really not sure about the end in particular. Do filter and pitch change simultaneously here?
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KVRian
1057 posts since 3 Nov, 2010

Post Thu Apr 15, 2021 7:09 am

I'll have a proper read when I get home but I thought of putting keytracking on but that didn't work either, a little but not completely.
External filter vst's are still digital so I could be wrong but I haven't seen a vst filter yet that behaves like an analog one when the resonance is pushed hard
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269 posts since 4 Dec, 2019

Post Thu Apr 15, 2021 8:36 am

CHOOS wrote:
Thu Apr 15, 2021 7:09 am
I'll have a proper read when I get home [...]

Oh, you're referring to the resonance problem when you crank up the resonance on digital filters. Yeah, I've heard about that, but I don't think that so much resonance is necessary in this case and the question is rather:
if we abstract from such nuances, could we make this happen in principle and could we make the sound evolve as suggested? Could we synch the filter movements in the end that should go together and how (pitch fall + filter closure)?
Read through my suggestions when you've settled down. You won't grasp it on the fly while reading from a smartphone without listening to the song, comparing, etc.
Nothing can be better than liberty and free time to spend as you choose. Let's give those modern slaveholders the bum's rush!

KVRian
1057 posts since 3 Nov, 2010

Post Thu Apr 15, 2021 9:08 am

OK My FL crashed and then it crashed again when I tried so maybe dont use Vital for a simple saw just any one osc saw will do.
https://vimeo.com/537358926
The part after this is where it gets more interesting to me but I would add another EQ and automate the parameters to what I want fucussing on the fundamental frequency as the pitch goes down and wait till you get that pulsating tom like sound
CHOOSX Remakes on my Youtube Channel

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269 posts since 4 Dec, 2019

Post Thu Apr 15, 2021 11:06 am

You stopped where it gets most interesting. :D
Please explain what you wanted to do next after creating the narrow bandpass filter.
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addled muppet weed
77626 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass

Post Thu Apr 15, 2021 12:35 pm

extreme pitch drop while tweaking the filter?
that bit?
resonance sounds lovely on that :love:

KVRian
1057 posts since 3 Nov, 2010

Post Thu Apr 15, 2021 1:02 pm

Yeah I'm surprised that it actually sounded half decent.

Ive to do some other shit but hopefully in the weekend I can finally post that #!@%$&* project and work on these other cool sounds
CHOOSX Remakes on my Youtube Channel

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269 posts since 4 Dec, 2019

Post Thu Apr 15, 2021 1:26 pm

Yes, vurt, that's where it got interesting. And then they said "Stay tuned! We'll be back soon after a short break."

Unfortunately I also can't do this atm because I'm working on sounds rather than on arrangements and I'd really like to stay a bit focussed and do first things first.
(I'm not yet concerned with automations of that kind, though I got the idea, whereas if you have done this before you could do it in no time...)

So let's postpone this to a later time. Good things take time! :wink:
Nothing can be better than liberty and free time to spend as you choose. Let's give those modern slaveholders the bum's rush!

KVRist
369 posts since 28 Jul, 2006

Post Thu Apr 15, 2021 3:03 pm

It sounds like pitch modulation of a saw wave through a resonant filter, then the end is just a crossfade with another repeating percussion sound thats having it's tempo brought from crazy fast audio rate modulation to a normal speed. They probably matched up the frequencies (saw wave, and audio rate modulated percussion sound) so that the cross fade was more seemless.

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