U-he repro vs phase plant

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
KVRAF
7005 posts since 2 Dec, 2004 from North Wales

Post Tue Apr 13, 2021 4:29 am

BONES wrote:
Mon Apr 12, 2021 7:24 pm
Dallon426 wrote:
Mon Apr 12, 2021 5:59 am
On record.... I would have no idea if a guitar was a Martin, Taylor, or a Gibson. I can tell if it was a small body or dreadnought etc. But beyond that, once it is on record it is damn hard to tell.
Synths are exactly the same. The difference is that the playing experience with a guitar is far more visceral than with a synth, so the things that make it easy to feel the difference with a guitar mostly don't apply in the world of synths.
Whilst as a Guitarist I have to agree with this, there is still a lot in a good hardware synth that completely changes and improves the playing experience.

Quality and action of the keys, the way the aftertouch works (or Poly AT like on my Hydra which is a joy to play and has a ribbon :) ). A one knob per function type interface with great feeling high quality knobs really adds to the experiance...as do wooden end cheeks :wink: You do feel the difference with a guitar, but I have still bought a lot of guitars because of the way they look :D
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GRRRRRRR!
11416 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle

Post Tue Apr 13, 2021 4:00 pm

Sure, but you can have those things with a VSTi, too. It might be a bit more work getting it all set up but, in the end, the experience will be at least as good. And before you start to complain about the number of knobs, I'd point out that even a $100 MiniLab has the same number of knobs as a Korg Monologue. And if you have an MPE controller like a Roli Seaboard, it's possible for the VSTi experience to be even better than any hardware synth you care to name.

That's the thing with softsynths, the experience can be as tactile as you want it to be. It's entirely up to you to get out of it exactly what you want/need. For me, none of the things you mention are of any value at all, so I am happy with a mouse and a cheap controller. In fact, most of the time I use the touch keyboard on my Uno Synth to play my VSTi because all I really need from it is a way to trigger a note so I can hear what's going on as I tweak the controls with my mouse.
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KVRAF
18756 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Post Tue Apr 13, 2021 5:31 pm

SLiC wrote:
Tue Apr 13, 2021 4:29 am
Quality and action of the keys, the way the aftertouch works (or Poly AT like on my Hydra which is a joy to play and has a ribbon :) ). A one knob per function type interface with great feeling high quality knobs really adds to the experience...
Yeah, there is nothing quite like a 1:1 interface with quality and direct controls...

KVRer
14 posts since 29 Mar, 2021

Post Tue Apr 13, 2021 7:40 pm

SiliconDeath wrote:
Tue Apr 13, 2021 4:06 am
Dallon426 wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 3:34 pm
.. Why would anyone choose repro over diva ..
This is actually a valid question :D :D :D

/s
I actually think this is worth discussing! I think Diva is more versatile overall, and also more unique. I think the Repro is mainly popular because the Prophet synths themselves are still very popular today (the rev2 especially, lately), and with how accurate it is, it's an attractive alternative to a pricey physical version.

Also, despite Diva's power, I tend to prefer Repro's sounds sooner than Diva's, even if I prefer Diva's in the end after more time tweaking.

KVRer
2 posts since 25 Mar, 2021

Post Tue Apr 13, 2021 7:41 pm

Phase Plant and Repro are completely different animals. Repro is meant to reproduce the prophet series of synths. Phase Plant is just its own little entity.

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GRRRRRRR!
11416 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle

Post Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:58 pm

pdxindy wrote:
Tue Apr 13, 2021 5:31 pm
Yeah, there is nothing quite like a 1:1 interface with quality and direct controls...
Like a mouse? I couldn't agree more. Because if that's what we're talking about, it is something that really only exists in software. I can't think of a single hardware synth with 1:1 controls and a patch memory. Any worth having share oscillator, envelope and/or LFO controls at the very least. Or you end up with something like the OB6, which has about the same set of features as a $200 Uno Synth.
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KVRist
209 posts since 4 Feb, 2021

Post Wed Apr 14, 2021 12:37 am

I can achieve a very similar hands on feeling using hardware synths or softsynths w. controller, but only because my Nektar Panorama P4 auto-maps about 90% of everything I load into Reason whether REs or most used VSTis. If I do not have to set it all up, there is not much difference in feel to me. Those dedicated controllers now a days surely make a difference compared to a decade ago where you had to do a lot of stuff of your own and simply chose the mouse-click approach for the practical purpose of getting the deed done without annoying delays.

On topic: I bought the Repros the other day and is very satisfied and impressed. I have a tendency to replace VSTi basses with analog ones, because I am rather picky about these. However, I would prefer a reduction in these extra jobs, so I have been looking for some emulations that can take me close to what I want. After several years away from software, I have been taken by emus like Repro, TAL J8, Uno-XL, Cheery Audio's 8-voice. Those are now added to my old ACE, TyrellN6 and TAL Noisemaker, which work for all practical purposes but still lack a little in what I want. Seemingly, I can get very close with these new emulations and rest my hardware a little.
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KVRAF
18756 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Post Wed Apr 14, 2021 7:31 am

BONES wrote:
Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:58 pm
pdxindy wrote:
Tue Apr 13, 2021 5:31 pm
Yeah, there is nothing quite like a 1:1 interface with quality and direct controls...
Like a mouse? I couldn't agree more. Because if that's what we're talking about, it is something that really only exists in software. I can't think of a single hardware synth with 1:1 controls and a patch memory. Any worth having share oscillator, envelope and/or LFO controls at the very least. Or you end up with something like the OB6, which has about the same set of features as a $200 Uno Synth.
I'm very happy with the mouse as an interface for various things. For example, I haven't tried a hardware pianoroll type sequencer where I didn't go back to the mouse and big screen because it worked much better for me.

For synth interfaces, 1:1 without presets is my favorite. What you see is always what you get!

With presets, I would like to see more synths using endless encoders with visual indicators. I think there is room for improvement there.

Using Borderlands (granular synth) on my iPad Pro is freakin amazing and so much fun. The mouse could never come close to the interactive touch screen interface of Borderlands.

For complex synths like Zebra, I don't believe there is any better way (or even as good) than using the mouse and screen.

For pattern based sequencers (for example Elektron), IMO, hardware is superior to mouse and screen. Here hardware is much more immediate and hands on.

What is really great these days is there are all these options so people can find what works for them!

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KVRAF
10925 posts since 26 Jun, 2006 from San Francisco Bay Area

Post Wed Apr 14, 2021 7:57 am

pdxindy wrote:
Wed Apr 14, 2021 7:31 am
BONES wrote:
Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:58 pm
pdxindy wrote:
Tue Apr 13, 2021 5:31 pm
Yeah, there is nothing quite like a 1:1 interface with quality and direct controls...
Like a mouse? I couldn't agree more. Because if that's what we're talking about, it is something that really only exists in software. I can't think of a single hardware synth with 1:1 controls and a patch memory. Any worth having share oscillator, envelope and/or LFO controls at the very least. Or you end up with something like the OB6, which has about the same set of features as a $200 Uno Synth.
I'm very happy with the mouse as an interface for various things. For example, I haven't tried a hardware pianoroll type sequencer where I didn't go back to the mouse and big screen because it worked much better for me.

For synth interfaces, 1:1 without presets is my favorite. What you see is always what you get!

With presets, I would like to see more synths using endless encoders with visual indicators. I think there is room for improvement there.

Using Borderlands (granular synth) on my iPad Pro is freakin amazing and so much fun. The mouse could never come close to the interactive touch screen interface of Borderlands.

For complex synths like Zebra, I don't believe there is any better way (or even as good) than using the mouse and screen.

For pattern based sequencers (for example Elektron), IMO, hardware is superior to mouse and screen. Here hardware is much more immediate and hands on.

What is really great these days is there are all these options so people can find what works for them!
100% agree. Each type of tool demands a different way of working with it. For a simple analog subtractive synth, having an interface like the Sequential 6 series synths is killer and there’s no mouse that will allow you to make a change like increasing filter cutoff while decreasing resonance at the same time, or attack time and envelope amount. Not possible with a mouse, and I do that all the time. Possible with a MIDI controller, but then you’re back to having a generic interface, which can be a bit of a disconnect. On the other hand, a physical interface for something like Zebra would just be silly, and the best outcome would probably involve a touch screen like the Iridium anyway. (If some reports are true, even the Iridium/Quantum could benefit from a mouse or trackball)

For me, both approaches lead to different results. A physical UI is more physical and instinctive to use, while a GUI is more cerebral. We’re house hunting and there’s not a lot in our price range that has enough room for me to have a bedroom to myself. I’ve resigned myself to possibly having to build a custom cabinet to house my stuff, but that means a lot of what I can physically touch now will be out of reach. I’m OK with that compromise, but it’s not ideal. I’m hoping I can have something made where I can have full access to my controllers (GEM S2, Rise 49 and Maschine MK1) and at least my REV2 and Prophet 6. Everything else will become GUI controlled. Not ideal, but it’s a compromise I’m willing to make. It will mean ditching the Dominion 1, which is a shame because it’s one of my favorite synths of all time, but I’m not going to let anything stop me from doing music. That’s the only option not on the table.
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KVRist
107 posts since 9 Oct, 2020

Post Wed Apr 14, 2021 11:07 am

Don’t worry about the difference. Load up Diva on occasion and experiment with the presets/patch design and see if you can figure out its ‘character’, the demo lasts forever.

You’re right that Phase Plant is so deep, you can pretty much do... most things in it. Including, if you want Phase Plant to be like Diva, building wavetables or sample oscillators out of sines/saws put through analogue distortion in order to better get an immediately more analogue sound, or a sine wave distorted with multiple types of polyphonic distortion from in phase plant + super subtle oscillation either slowly or at audio rate of various parameters in order to get an analogue sound.

Or do crazy insane and gorgeous things other synths can’t do, or at least not nearly as easily (Falcon, MSoundFactory). That being said I think you’ll see over time why u-he stuff in general is top-notch.

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GRRRRRRR!
11416 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle

Post Wed Apr 14, 2021 3:52 pm

pdxindy wrote:
Wed Apr 14, 2021 7:31 am
For synth interfaces, 1:1 without presets is my favorite. What you see is always what you get!
Just like a softsynth.
With presets, I would like to see more synths using endless encoders with visual indicators. I think there is room for improvement there.
If you're willing to pay for it and then you'd have the purists complaining because endless encoders aren't analogue.
Using Borderlands (granular synth) on my iPad Pro is freakin amazing and so much fun. The mouse could never come close to the interactive touch screen interface of Borderlands.
To what end? It sounds like it's a toy - something to play with. I need tools to write, produce and perform songs with, not toys that are fun to play with.
For pattern based sequencers (for example Elektron), IMO, hardware is superior to mouse and screen. Here hardware is much more immediate and hands on.
Not in a million years. I find the Elektron sequencer all but completely unusable. IT's absurdly convoluted. I can't imagine why I would want to use it over Studio One. Even easy to use hardware sequencers like the ones in Monologue or Uno aren't worth bothering with when you can sequence them, or anything else, from your host of choice.
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GRRRRRRR!
11416 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle

Post Wed Apr 14, 2021 4:00 pm

zerocrossing wrote:
Wed Apr 14, 2021 7:57 am
there’s no mouse that will allow you to make a change like increasing filter cutoff while decreasing resonance at the same time, or attack time and envelope amount.
Of course you can, it's called automation. Or you route them to your mod wheel and use that - one hand on the keyboard, the other on your mouse. The absolute last thing I ever want to be doing is twiddling knobs on stage so I see no need to do it at any other time, either. It's about as musical as plugging and unplugging cables.
Possible with a MIDI controller, but then you’re back to having a generic interface, which can be a bit of a disconnect.
In what way? My controller sits closer to my VSTi interfaces than the keyboard on my Analog Keys sits to its controls and it feels at least as connected. Any disconnect exists only in your mind.
A physical UI is more physical and instinctive to use, while a GUI is more cerebral.
Maybe for you but, even though I've been using hardware for 40 years and only been using softsynths for half that time, I don't feel that way AT ALL. A good softsynth GUI is an absolute joy to use and wholly instinctive.
Last edited by BONES on Wed Apr 14, 2021 6:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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KVRAF
15243 posts since 16 Sep, 2001 from Las Vegas,USA

Post Wed Apr 14, 2021 5:10 pm

zerocrossing wrote:
Wed Apr 14, 2021 7:57 am
there’s no mouse that will allow you to make a change like increasing filter cutoff while decreasing resonance at the same time,
Macro knobs. Grab it with your mouse and as set up in the image it increases Cutoff while decreasing Resonance. Adjust to taste.

Any synth with an X-Y Pad will do the same thing. Grab the Puck with your mouse........

Vital Matrix.png
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KVRAF
18756 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Post Wed Apr 14, 2021 9:18 pm

Teksonik wrote:
Wed Apr 14, 2021 5:10 pm
zerocrossing wrote:
Wed Apr 14, 2021 7:57 am
there’s no mouse that will allow you to make a change like increasing filter cutoff while decreasing resonance at the same time,
Macro knobs. Grab it with your mouse and as set up in the image it increases Cutoff while decreasing Resonance. Adjust to taste.

Any synth with an X-Y Pad will do the same thing. Grab the Puck with your mouse........


Vital Matrix.png
That is only a predefined relationship. You cannot control them independently at the same time...

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KVRAF
18756 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Post Wed Apr 14, 2021 9:21 pm

BONES wrote:
Wed Apr 14, 2021 3:52 pm
pdxindy wrote:
Wed Apr 14, 2021 7:31 am
For synth interfaces, 1:1 without presets is my favorite. What you see is always what you get!
Just like a softsynth.
Except the softsynth it is see only (and even then it is only a screen representation)... with the hardware it is see and touch. No midi controller can match the hands on immediacy of dedicated hardware controls.
BONES wrote:
Wed Apr 14, 2021 3:52 pm
With presets, I would like to see more synths using endless encoders with visual indicators. I think there is room for improvement there.
If you're willing to pay for it and then you'd have the purists complaining because endless encoders aren't analogue.
I don't care what the purists say if it works well. I'm surprised you do care.
BONES wrote:
Wed Apr 14, 2021 3:52 pm
Using Borderlands (granular synth) on my iPad Pro is freakin amazing and so much fun. The mouse could never come close to the interactive touch screen interface of Borderlands.
To what end? It sounds like it's a toy - something to play with. I need tools to write, produce and perform songs with, not toys that are fun to play with.
Too bad for you that you never have any fun. The good news for you is, it is not one or the other. Something can be both fun and productive.

BONES wrote:
Wed Apr 14, 2021 3:52 pm
For pattern based sequencers (for example Elektron), IMO, hardware is superior to mouse and screen. Here hardware is much more immediate and hands on.
Not in a million years. I find the Elektron sequencer all but completely unusable. IT's absurdly convoluted. I can't imagine why I would want to use it over Studio One. Even easy to use hardware sequencers like the ones in Monologue or Uno aren't worth bothering with when you can sequence them, or anything else, from your host of choice.
You've just never bothered to learn the tool. You need to put some small amount of time to learn them. Once learned the Elektron sequencers are fast and easy... and invite results that would not happen in a DAW pianoroll.

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