U-he repro vs phase plant

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
KVRAF
6980 posts since 2 Dec, 2004 from North Wales

Post Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:03 am

There is far too much use of the word 'work' for me... workstation, workhorse...Its just a hobby for me- I don't 'work' musical instruments, I 'play' musical instruments! I guess that why the 'PlayStation' wasn't called the 'WorkStation' ;-)
PC, Studio One, BWS, Live, FL Studio, Renoise, X32 Desk, Hardware Synths, Grove Boxes + Eurorack, TD27 V Drums, Guitars & Basses

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KVRist
197 posts since 4 Feb, 2021

Post Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:20 am

To each, his own, man. Nevertheless, Repro is an excellent example of focus while Phase Plant aims for the monster title, imo. Ain't for me but best of luck. Hive seems monster enough to me in the synth department and can even deliver some cool physical modeling results.
Tribe Of Hǫfuð https://soundcloud.com/user-228690154 Karma, MC909, Microkorg, MU100R/VL70 w. BC1, Nord Lead 2, Polivoks, Prophecy, WSA-1, Mac Pro w. Reason 11 Suite + Nektar P4 + Nektar Impact LX25+.

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addled muppet weed
77663 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass

Post Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:58 am

Urs wrote:
Mon Apr 19, 2021 12:56 am
I don't mind the category of Ubersynth even though I have that German sensitivity for all things "Uber" being a really bad kind of name (there's a history of calling certain people "Uber", so I guess I don't like the connotation anywhere - also because a recent post made clear that me being German puts me under extra scrutiny when using terminology that's subject to that kind of history). To me the category itself would rather describe synths of a certain complexity, and maybe modular in particular. Such that, I internally translate the word to "modular" or "semi modular/complex" synthesisers, a categorization that's neutral in my thinking. I think Monster Synths was used a lot around here in the past, which sounds a lot more fun to me than Uber ;)

Anyhow, I'd surely prefer to distinguish between synths that amass options in a fixed layout (dozens of generators, but only one or two at a time, dozens of filter mechanics, but only one or two at a time), synths that amass few types of modules in a vast number of otherwise identical layers and synths that amass options by free connectivity (modularity). I have a suspicion that latter category falls into the Ubersynth category easier than former two, even if the actual number of different elements may be smaller. Therefore, one person's idea of an elegant design may be someone else's idea of a clumsy one - and vice versa.
not forgetting the terrible taxi company.

KVRAF
12699 posts since 13 Oct, 2009

Post Mon Apr 19, 2021 6:33 am

SLiC wrote:
Mon Apr 19, 2021 1:18 am
Then you have real modular synths like Reaktor
Reaktor is not a modular synth, it's a high level synth development environment. Because of that it can be a modular synth, it can be an ubersynth, in fact, those are my least favorite reaktor ensembles, or it can be a very focused synth. Or, it can not be a synth at all.

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KVRAF
18748 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Post Mon Apr 19, 2021 6:44 am

SLiC wrote:
Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:03 am
There is far too much use of the word 'work' for me... workstation, workhorse...Its just a hobby for me- I don't 'work' musical instruments, I 'play' musical instruments! I guess that why the 'PlayStation' wasn't called the 'WorkStation' ;-)
Indeed :)

KVRAF
12699 posts since 13 Oct, 2009

Post Mon Apr 19, 2021 7:12 am

TribeOfHǫfuð wrote:
Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:20 am
To each, his own, man. Nevertheless, Repro is an excellent example of focus while Phase Plant aims for the monster title, imo. Ain't for me but best of luck. Hive seems monster enough to me in the synth department and can even deliver some cool physical modeling results.
They even tell you as much on their web site: "It's god's gift to sound designers" or some such is code for "we think that this is an ubersynth." Nobody ever tried to sell a TB303 emulation as a sound designer's dream plugin.

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GRRRRRRR!
11405 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle

Post Mon Apr 19, 2021 5:36 pm

It's marketing. It's not about what they think, it's about what they want you to think. That's how marketing works.
TribeOfHǫfuð wrote:
Mon Apr 19, 2021 2:55 am
Besides, In terms of a complex workshorse synth, we would need a synth that can deliver all the accoustic flavors of synths like Korg Prophecy, Yamaha MU100/VL70, Technics WSA-1, Reason Studios Friktion + rompler/sampleplayers + refills besides from a wide scope of synth sounds.
Not really. You use your workhorse for general things, for specific things you use something more specialised. For me that's the dozen or more Kontakt instruments I have for strings and other orchestral things, the 5 Ujam drum machines I have, plus the 4 Ujam Guitar instruments I own. Those things, obviously, are only good for certain things, my workhorse synths do most of the rest.
In that respect, I do not think we shall ever see a Workhorse synth for us, so I stick to horses for courses.
If I use JP6K as an example, it's something I bought initially for one thing - to replace all of the basslines we had been using Orion's Wasp for. Those basslines are what define our sound, so it is a very important role for us and JP6K does it really, really well - better than anything else in our arsenal. But it also came with a few nice strings patches, another thing we use all the time, so we started using it for that, too. Through those two things, I got to learn it inside and out very quickly so now it is something I can rely on for pretty much any synth sound I might need because, let's be honest, most of the parts in any given arrangement are fairly generic, it's only one or two parts that stand out in a mix. Get those right the other stuff is largely interchangeable. These days I find I have to consciously stop myself from using it for too many different things, just so some of the other instruments I paid good money for get a run. I only bought it during a Xmas sale, 5 months or so ago, but it will feature in every single song next time we get up on stage. That's got to be the definition of a workhorse, surely? I can't say it's the only synth I'd ever need but if I could only have two, it would absolutely be one of them (the other would be Thorn).
SLiC wrote:
Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:03 am
There is far too much use of the word 'work' for me... workstation, workhorse...Its just a hobby for me- I don't 'work' musical instruments, I 'play' musical instruments!
How sad. Music is also a hobby for me but never, ever just a hobby. I am far more passionate about it than that but for me instruments are tools, nothing more. They are a means to and end, not an end in themselves. The "end", of course, is getting up on stage and performing the songs we write/produce. Over the last 36 years, since I first did that, I have come to understand just how eminently replaceable the synths are. e.g. By the time I stopped playing the songs from my first single, in 1987, I had replaced my entire set-up at least five times over and the songs mostly got better every time I did. I've had to do the same since we decided to leave Orion behind, first with Cubase and currently with Studio One and, again, it's been an opportunity to make the songs better by using newer, better tools (synths) to rebuild them. So the songs we still do from our first album will sound better than they ever have, next time we perform them. But it's not "playing", it's a performance. It's the most serious thing in my life and I wouldn't have it any other way.
TribeOfHǫfuð wrote:
Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:20 am
To each, his own, man. Nevertheless, Repro is an excellent example of focus while Phase Plant aims for the monster title, imo.
I don't think RePro5 is focused at all. Quite the opposite, it is extremely versatile because it has so many sweet spots and they are so easy to find. I'd use it all the time if it wasn't such a CPU hog. You seem to value physical modelling but I prefer a good sample library and those things tend to be laser-focused.
ghettosynth wrote:
Mon Apr 19, 2021 6:33 am
Reaktor is not a modular synth, it's a high level synth development environment. Because of that it can be a modular synth, it can be an ubersynth, in fact, those are my least favorite reaktor ensembles, or it can be a very focused synth. Or, it can not be a synth at all.
TRK-01 Bass is a perfect example of how simple and effective Reaktor ensembles can be. And, just like a simple set-up in Phase Plant, it is far lighter on CPU than any Ubersynth you care to name. I don't use PP because it can be an Ubersynth, I use it because it can be one oscillator and a VCA if that's all I need. I used it in exactly that configuration the other day to replace a part we had previously been using DUNE for - why use 3 x osc and 2 x filters when all you need is a single supersaw osc?
NOVAkILL : Dell G7 Core i7, 32GB RAM, Win10, Zoom U24 | Studio One | Thorn, bx_oberhausen, ARP Odyssey, JP6K, Hexeract, Vacuum Pro, TRK-01, Knifonium, Equator, VG Carbon | Uno Pro Desktop, Uno, Analog Keys, Ultranova, Rocket.

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KVRist
60 posts since 19 Apr, 2021

Post Mon Apr 19, 2021 5:42 pm

Both are great synthesizers.
Last edited by Peraqsha on Wed Apr 21, 2021 9:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Rad Grandad
33181 posts since 6 Sep, 2003 from Downeast Maine

Post Mon Apr 19, 2021 5:46 pm

so what is the point of this comment ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

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KVRAF
21311 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from not here

Post Mon Apr 19, 2021 6:21 pm

for me Absynth is *the* workhorse. Is it simple? No. Because it's predictably bread and butter right out of the box? No. Because the opposite, that stuff bores me to death. And I like work more than some, apparently.

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KVRAF
21311 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from not here

Post Mon Apr 19, 2021 6:23 pm

Peraqsha wrote:
Mon Apr 19, 2021 5:42 pm
I'm glad I don't get caught up in these debates, they look slightly tedious.
Who knew it was a debate, sheesh.
that kind of remark is beyond tiresome, adds nothing, not even irritating enough to be worth :D

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KVRAF
21311 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from not here

Post Mon Apr 19, 2021 6:32 pm

Here's a definition of workhorse (that isn't literally a working horse rather than a racer or a show horse): a machine, piece of equipment, or vehicle that you can trust to work well and that you can use to do a lot of work.

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KVRist
197 posts since 4 Feb, 2021

Post Mon Apr 19, 2021 11:29 pm

BONES wrote:
Mon Apr 19, 2021 5:36 pm
Not really. You use your workhorse for general things, for specific things you use something more specialised.
In your definition of a workhorse, maybe. Though I was thinking of the one put forward somewhere a workshorse is like a swizz army knife that you do not need to replace for exactly that reason. Well, I need a very complex knife to fullfil that goal. I do not have a general workhorse in any sense, but a stable full of specialized workhorses, and I do not mind replacing them from tune to tune to enjoy the diversity. We are not pros. No deadlines that require fast solutions. We can allow ourselves to be irrational and be inspired from a nice GUI, workflow or whatever only. A lot of the proces is intuitive, we grap a synth from the collection and see if we can get it where we want. We usually do, because we know them well enough, but we are ready to replace them, if they fail.
I don't think RePro5 is focused at all. Quite the opposite, it is extremely versatile because it has so many sweet spots and they are so easy to find. I'd use it all the time if it wasn't such a CPU hog.
Focused does not necessarily means "simple" if what you focus ain't that. However, Repro 5 is an emulation and focused as such, and that is all I need to to make the distinction between focused and multifaceted like Zebra meaningsful to me. Apparantly thia is the most shared view around too, so it can even be communicated and understood.
You seem to value physical modelling but I prefer a good sample library and those things tend to be laser-focused.
To each, his own :shrug: I like sample-libs too. I like to have sample-libs and physical modeling even better, but that may just be me. If so, fine, I am neither afraid to be different from others or just like others if just the work gets done to our satisfaction. I have no reason to care about either.
Last edited by TribeOfHǫfuð on Tue Apr 20, 2021 3:43 am, edited 2 times in total.
Tribe Of Hǫfuð https://soundcloud.com/user-228690154 Karma, MC909, Microkorg, MU100R/VL70 w. BC1, Nord Lead 2, Polivoks, Prophecy, WSA-1, Mac Pro w. Reason 11 Suite + Nektar P4 + Nektar Impact LX25+.

KVRAF
1965 posts since 23 Jun, 2006 from Hungary

Post Tue Apr 20, 2021 12:01 am

these are just tools of musicmaking. lets compare the music the user made with them!

KVRAF
6980 posts since 2 Dec, 2004 from North Wales

Post Tue Apr 20, 2021 12:04 am

BONES wrote:
Mon Apr 19, 2021 5:36 pm
SLiC wrote:
Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:03 am
There is far too much use of the word 'work' for me... workstation, workhorse...Its just a hobby for me- I don't 'work' musical instruments, I 'play' musical instruments!
How sad. Music is also a hobby for me but never, ever just a hobby. I am far more passionate about it than that but for me instruments are tools, nothing more. They are a means to and end, not an end in themselves. The "end", of course, is getting up on stage and performing the songs we write/produce. Over the last 36 years, since I first did that, I have come to understand just how eminently replaceable the synths are. e.g. By the time I stopped playing the songs from my first single, in 1987, I had replaced my entire set-up at least five times over and the songs mostly got better every time I did. I've had to do the same since we decided to leave Orion behind, first with Cubase and currently with Studio One and, again, it's been an opportunity to make the songs better by using newer, better tools (synths) to rebuild them. So the songs we still do from our first album will sound better than they ever have, next time we perform them. But it's not "playing", it's a performance. It's the most serious thing in my life and I wouldn't have it any other way.
Good for you :tu: I can respect that.

I took writing and playing music far more seriously when I was young and playing live a lot (admittedly guitar!). I even had a flirtation with trying to make money from music (I owned a small studio) but it never made a profit and I very quickly realised I didn't like 'having' to do music full time (hell is other people, especially when they are 'the talent'!!)

I am 55 now- wife, 2 teenage kids, 2 dogs etc and a very busy business and home life....music is now way down the list of things I take seriously and I am OK with that, but I wouldn't (couldn't) be without it...it's where I go for me :phones:
PC, Studio One, BWS, Live, FL Studio, Renoise, X32 Desk, Hardware Synths, Grove Boxes + Eurorack, TD27 V Drums, Guitars & Basses

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