DSP563xx Emulator (Access Virus, Nord Lead, Waldorf MW...)

DSP, Plug-in and Host development discussion.
KVRian
688 posts since 14 May, 2014

Post Thu May 06, 2021 8:07 pm

Or, if your intention is just to produce a song, in this case the correct behaviour is to try the emulator with a specific rom, then buy the corresponding hardware from the manufacturer.
Many, if not all, of the aforementioned synths are no longer in production and can only be purchased through the second-hand market (e.g Ebay, Reverb, Craigslist, etc). While I'm all for supporting the official developer/manufacturer, I don't think it's really possible to directly do that simply by buying it off another musician's hands. Not only that, eventually the parts for repairing/maintaining these older synths will become harder and harder to find. Eventually, they'll either be left in the dust or they make the jump to software sooner or later.

Never say never as it would be fun to see Arturia or one of the big plugin developers to jump on any of these synths, but as far as anyone can tell atm, this is literally the only project that is devoted to these old-school synths.

TLDR: I agree with Music Engineer. I understand questioning the legality and I certainly wouldn't want to see any of the developers go out of business -- Waldorf has already had some experience with that -- but I think it's neither here nor there with regards to these synths or the very nature of this project.

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KVRAF
21594 posts since 7 Jan, 2009 from Croatia

Post Fri May 07, 2021 1:29 am

xhunaudio wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 8:04 pm
Do you like Access Music Virus B/C ? Buy Virus TI2.
TI2 still uses 56k Motorolas, but there are slight differences between Virus B/C and TI.
xhunaudio wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 8:04 pm
The same for Ultranova, Nord Lead 5 and Waldorf's too.
Ultranova sounds NOTHING like the older Nova/Supernova, same can be said for newer NL vs older NL, and especially newer Waldorfs against Q or Microwave II/XT. It's just not the same thing. :)

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KVRian
795 posts since 17 Feb, 2010

Post Fri May 07, 2021 3:38 am

Ok...

In my post I just said "if you are a 56k coprocessor enthusiast and want to just see how accurate is this emulation", you are perfectly in line with the spirit behind this project.

Instead "if your intention is to use the emulator + roms with the EXCLUSIVE AIM to produce a music song", you should ALSO support the hardware manufacturer (they hold the roms Authorship).

I think this project has tremendous potentials and it was just to clarify that the authors are not *encouraging* the diffusion and the abuse of the rom files. Nothing more.

If I'm a 56k enthusiast and I want to see how the Virus rom is finely, cycle-exactly executed, I'll run the emulator with no further "moral duties". It's also a way to get people in touch with the "Virus world". (Please, -19 puns are not allowed) :)

Then, if I'm a music producer and I want to produce a song (for example, also a commercial one) with it, after using the emulator I should just support the author of the rom. Just this. It was to reply to a sentence "and access music to notthing", wich I interpreted as "Access Music has anything to object" ?
Last edited by xhunaudio on Fri May 07, 2021 5:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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KVRAF
1688 posts since 2 Jul, 2010

Post Fri May 07, 2021 3:51 am

xhunaudio wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 8:04 pm
Well, the majority of the devices are still "available" from the manufacturers, in the form of derivates having *a lot* in common with the 56k hardware based devices. And when I say *a lot*, I mean *A LOT*.

Do you like Access Music Virus B/C ? Buy Virus TI2.

The same for Ultranova, Nord Lead 5 and Waldorf's too.
If I remember rightly, Clavia released the Nord Lead 2X because people preferred the sound of the Lead 2 to the Lead 3 (even though the Lead 3 has a way cooler interface). I dunno where the Nord Lead 5 sits in this, but it's pretty clear that musicians thought there was a difference in that case.

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KVRian
795 posts since 17 Feb, 2010

Post Fri May 07, 2021 4:31 am

A question to the authors (563XX emulator) :

Is the DSP 563XX series (and the 563XX emulator too) natively compatible with the 56001,56002,... (the first generation of 56k) ?
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KVRian
688 posts since 14 May, 2014

Post Fri May 07, 2021 8:02 am

imrae wrote:
Fri May 07, 2021 3:51 am
xhunaudio wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 8:04 pm
Well, the majority of the devices are still "available" from the manufacturers, in the form of derivates having *a lot* in common with the 56k hardware based devices. And when I say *a lot*, I mean *A LOT*.

Do you like Access Music Virus B/C ? Buy Virus TI2.

The same for Ultranova, Nord Lead 5 and Waldorf's too.
If I remember rightly, Clavia released the Nord Lead 2X because people preferred the sound of the Lead 2 to the Lead 3 (even though the Lead 3 has a way cooler interface). I dunno where the Nord Lead 5 sits in this, but it's pretty clear that musicians thought there was a difference in that case.
Mmhmm! The Nord Lead 2 has fatter oscillators, juicier filters, and a much more overall 'analog' tone. The Nord Lead 3's sound is thinner, but makes up for it with extensive modulation capabilities. Both sound like Nord synths, but it's apple and oranges.

And Evil Dragon is right: the same principle applies to all these old-school synths which often sound much more richer. The Supernova 1 and 2 sound way different (and better imo) than the Ultranova, despite the latter having a very handy software editor. The Waldorf synths all sound distinct despite having the overall same tonality. Many pine for the Microwave for it's 80's sound, but the Q is the best of the lot and arguably the best VA synth ever made imo.

Trust that I'm an enthusiast for this era and I've gone down the rabbit hole of purchasing and comparing several of these synths. Each of them are distinct enough from each other and, if it's a sound that you want, the only way you can get it is by getting the hardware. There are no shortcuts or substitutes whether with a later released hardware or software plugin.

...At least until this project reaches it's fruition, hence the excitement :phones:
Last edited by Shiek927 on Fri May 07, 2021 10:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

KVRian
688 posts since 14 May, 2014

Post Fri May 07, 2021 8:07 am

xhunaudio wrote:
Fri May 07, 2021 4:31 am
A question to the authors (563XX emulator) :

Is the DSP 563XX series (and the 563XX emulator too) natively compatible with the 56001,56002,... (the first generation of 56k) ?
From my understanding, it's not. The Nord Lead 2 wouldn't be possible, at least without extra work. It's not impossible, it's just not as easy. There are so many synths that are 563 which makes things overall much more easier on their part.

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KVRAF
21594 posts since 7 Jan, 2009 from Croatia

Post Sun May 09, 2021 2:07 pm

Shiek927 wrote:
Fri May 07, 2021 8:02 am
but the Q is the best of the lot and arguably the best VA synth ever made imo.
I love me some Q, but....




AN1x. :love:

KVRian
688 posts since 14 May, 2014

Post Sun May 09, 2021 5:52 pm

EvilDragon wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 2:07 pm
Shiek927 wrote:
Fri May 07, 2021 8:02 am
but the Q is the best of the lot and arguably the best VA synth ever made imo.
I love me some Q, but....




AN1x. :love:
It would be wonderful to see the AN1X someday! those arps especially are so nice and just drip 1990's :love: but I checked and it unfortunately looks like many of Yamaha's offerings don't use Motorola chips at all and instead use their own YM**** chips, like on the DX7 or the Sega Genesis. Never say never, but it doesn't look like it's possible to do the AN1x through this project :(

It's not the end of the world because, what with the Virus', Q, Nord Lead, Supernova, Korg MS2000 and so on, the 1990's/early 2k VA sound is absolutely more than made up for. But it would be fun to see the AN1x, CS-series, Motif, and other Yamaha's come out some day

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KVRAF
21594 posts since 7 Jan, 2009 from Croatia

Post Mon May 10, 2021 1:01 am

Yeah AN1x has custom DSPs, not happening in this project at all. That would need a metric ton of reverse engineering (not to mention I don't think there are any widespread materials on how you actually program for YM chips, this is all internal to Yamaha).

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KVRian
795 posts since 17 Feb, 2010

Post Mon May 10, 2021 3:33 am

Uhmm... I have the impression this 563XX emulation could be just the beginning... :)

...After all, there are other more recent (=more documented) hardware DSPs (eg : Texas Instruments used in KORG Radias) which would be (maybe) relatively easier to emulate than a 563XX...

...And there's the (extremely well-known and widely documented) Motorola 68k CPU, used to process the whole software DSP in all E-mu "romplers" from 1989...

Does anyone know anything about the KORG Z1 DSPs ? I don't remember... but since KORG had a lot to do with Motorola DSPs in the 1990s, it would be possible that the Z1 was 56k based too... Any infos ?
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KVRAF
21594 posts since 7 Jan, 2009 from Croatia

Post Mon May 10, 2021 3:47 am

Z1, its voice expansion board and MOSS expansion board, all of them are using TI TMS57070FPJ DSPs. One per voice.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/144011501970

KVRer
25 posts since 4 Dec, 2004 from NY

Post Mon May 10, 2021 3:57 am

Has anyone considered using a low-cost FPGA dev board as a platform for a multi-chip simulation?

I'm envisioning something like the MiSTER project for VAs and digital synths ...

KVRian
688 posts since 14 May, 2014

Post Mon May 10, 2021 10:00 am

Yeah, a lot is and isn't possible with this project. Other Korg synths like the Radias aren't possible, the Quasimidi Synths, Kawai K5000, Alesis Quadrasynth...not every 90s/2k VA synth under-the-sun will be possible because many of them are using completely different chips. Nord Lead 1 and 2 are at least possible because they're 56, but not 563, so it would take extra work.

I'm personally content given that *so many* of them will be available and many of them are my favorites. Hopefully someday the rest will happen as well.

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KVRian
795 posts since 17 Feb, 2010

Post Mon May 10, 2021 10:41 am

Yes, I was just figuring (in the long term, with many people involved) something similar to MAME, a sort of "Multiple DSP Emulator"...

But this 563XX already is an amazing project, also without any further processor/coprocessor addition.
bruno @ Xhun Audio || www.xhun-audio.com || Twitter || Facebook || Instagram
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