KVR Audio

MISSY · Post by **MISSY** » Mon May 10, 2021 7:31 pm

I have a general question concerning music software, DAWs and VSTs (Synths in particular) and producing music commercially that could possibly mean revenue for the user. I was going to buy vengeance producer suite VST tonight to use with one of my DAWs but noticed there were questions on forums about the soundsets within the software and whether you could use them commercially as part of a person's own unique composition and just before I parted with US $220 I read in the small print that the entire contents of vengeance VST was for personal use only and I might have read that wrong but my question is what is the point in spending US $220 for software that you cannot use commercially. So if I ever got to the situation of producing my own music how would I go about incorporating any contents of a DAW / VST when one is going to produce unique songs to sell commercially if you cannot use any of the contents of any VST ? Or do some DAW / VST software allow all contents to be used ?
I am very new to all of this I may not ever produce anything commercially but I have spent a considerable amount of money so what is the best advice or feedback or description of how all this works because if the entire contents of vengeance VST are for personal use only then basically it's just an an expensive toy isn't it ?

To cut a long story short if I want to pursue creating my own music without running the risk of infringing copyrights of DAW / VST and music software how do I go about this and which particular DAW / VST do I need to be steering clear of and which ones do I need to be using ?

I am at this point very confused and wonder whether I have wasted all my money with the software that I have bought so far. Could anyone possibly give me the layman's explanation for someone like me who does not know anything really but cannot get a definite response from the developers and other daw software

I want to be able to produce my own music but enhance it with the sounds and contents of music software available how do I go about this without running the risk of copyright and what is the point of buying a vst if the contents are all copyrighted ? Maybe I've misinterpreted it but US $220 is a lot of money for me and I need to be absolutely sure of the correct way of going about composing a song or a piece of music with the aid of music softwares

Over some time I've purchased Cubase 11 Elements, Studio One, Mixcraft 9, Pigments 3, Nexus 3, Sylenth1 and have the good free software from Kontakt and Spitfire etc. I WANTED to buy Vengeance Producer Suite VST but then saw this Debate on the web about Soundsets Issues with Commercial Music

Thanks

AnX · Post by **AnX** » Mon May 10, 2021 7:48 pm

vengeance doesn't have a great reputation when it comes to copyright material

Passing Bye · Post by **Passing Bye** » Mon May 10, 2021 7:59 pm

You mean Avenger? You aren't missing much, you are better off buying something else... there's Parawave Rapid!

https://parawave-audio.com/index.php?ro ... duct/rapid

synthgeek · Post by **synthgeek** » Mon May 10, 2021 8:01 pm

AnX wrote: ↑Mon May 10, 2021 7:48 pm vengeance doesn't have a great reputation when it comes to copyright material

Indeed, the problem you've probably seen talked about is Vengeance re-packaging stuff they don't have rights to.

Generally speaking, things that are sold as "royalty-free" sounds or loops or whatever can be used in your own music without issue, you just can't turn around and re-sell them for others to use in the same way, which seems to be what happened with the stuff in question. There may be a caveat here with "demo" content packaged with DAWs etc., but usually such things are made clear up front.

MISSY · Post by **MISSY** » Mon May 10, 2021 11:19 pm

I have just installed the demo of parawave rapid and was quite amazed at the sounds and obviously I've never heard of this but particularly loved the pads so will trial it out after work. Booted up pigments 3 that I got half price and loved it to bits and then tried vengeance demo AGAIN and unfortunately STILL LOVE the sounds so am not sure what to do there oh lordy lordy. But yes, thanks for the feedback and I do wonder of all the people who have bought vengeance has anyone managed to do anything commercially ?

It's early days and I listened to that guy on YouTube with glasses who reviews all these VSTs and he's from Poland and could sell absolutely ANYTHING musical he's absolutely fantastic and I heard him with Vengeance and thought Oh my gosh, gotta have that which lead me to the demo and then the small print about copyright.

Okay well I will see where this takes me but there must be an eternal supply of heavenly God like Synths on sale

Thanks

Passing Bye · Post by **Passing Bye** » Mon May 10, 2021 11:36 pm

Ask Vengeance about it, you can even do it here in their own thread
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=467127

jancivil · Post by **jancivil** » Tue May 11, 2021 2:45 pm

I don't know anything about "Vengeance", but you are probably seeing language which states you can't repackage, or reverse engineer, or alter the guts of the plugin for distribution. So "personal use" would tend not to preclude 'recordings made with commercial intent'. There are a few things in the world which make that distinction, but a synth plugin isn't going to be in business unless people are making music with it and able to distribute their own music as they see fit.

syntonica · Post by **syntonica** » Tue May 11, 2021 5:52 pm

You'll need to post the bit of language that concerns you here for better assistance. Usually, samples included with a VST are the IP of the software company and cannot themselves be resold or redistributed. However, they can be used in that specific software to create sounds that can be sampled and distributed. It's weird, I know.

briefcasemanx · Post by **briefcasemanx** » Tue May 11, 2021 11:38 pm

If Vengeance want me to use it only for personal use they can shove it. Sue me. If anyone from Vengeance is reading this, you can sue me right now for making money using your software.

MISSY · Post by **MISSY** » Wed May 12, 2021 7:30 pm

I have received an email last night from Vengeance just saying, QUOTE
"Hi
Please have a look at our TOS.
https://www.vengeance-sound.com/terms.php

To be honest I went to the page and was totally overwhelmed by the abundance of rules and regulations do's and don't dos and obviously I fully understand that you cannot take 1 sequence as it is and put it in in a commercial release for fear of reprisals from Vengeance but I was wanting to know can you create music with the factory soundsets and any sounds sets that you buy mix and match and I really can't fathom out the huge page of rules

it seems to me me that you can't do anything without the fear of being sued by Vengeance and like I say that in my opinion makes Vengeance out to be an expensive toy and that surely cannot be right which is why I came here to ask the professionals who are actually using these softwares in a professional manner but I cannot get a definitive answer from anybody

So it's not a biggie at the moment because there's no chance of me producing some fantastic commercial song in the next week or while but when I'm paying out USD $220 it would be prudent to know upfront that I can at least do something commercial but the way I read those rules and regulations is that if you use of the sound sets or factory soundsets or anything you are breaking terms of service

Surely that cannot be right and if I was to for instance use a fraction of a sequence in conjunction with other sounds that would be within the realms of TOS ?

I just don't know but I do know that $220 is a lot of money and I really do like the synthesiser but I don't really want to buy a toy that I can't produce anything commercial from

I just need a very basic explanation of what you can and can't do from a commercial point of view with vengeance synth because it would seem that their terms of service say that you cannot do anything with that except listen to it within the four walls of your house ... that cannot be right surely ?

Sigh, Le Sigh

Passing Bye · Post by **Passing Bye** » Wed May 12, 2021 7:59 pm

You can't resell their samples or make any new sampler instrument or sample pack out of them for profit (product is purely sample pack or instrument, not your music), same goes for Avenger, you can't re-sample one of their samples they use as oscillator and make library out of it for profit, but you can use it in your own music.

Their license agreement is covering all their products, so they are talking in some instances about sample packs, where you get melody loops that they actually own, you can sample it as one shot, but you can't use that composition, it's just to give you idea, they own the composition, but it's not like nobody did that and Vengeance actually sued them, but avoid using melody loops like that, it's lazy, make your own melodies.

SO YOU CAN USE AVENGER TO MAKE YOUR OWN MUSIC, YOU CAN USE ARP'S&SEQUENCES THAT ARE PROVIDED IN YOUR MUSIC, YOU CAN SELL AND RELEASE THAT MUSIC, YOU CAN'T USE MELODY LOOPS FROM VENGEANCE SAMPLE PACKS, DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT?

MISSY · Post by **MISSY** » Thu May 13, 2021 12:10 am

Not quite loud enough tbh ! I'll pass on your interpretation to the appropriate thread here with the many people who are just as confused with the TOS of Avenger. Have a beautiful day !

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Thu May 13, 2021 12:16 am

Don't worry about it. Manuel Schleis mentioned here once that there's not more problems than with other soft synth to use Avenger is any kind of commercial music.

Never seen more than 1 or 2 people really concerned or confused about their user agreement though, so I wonder where you got it from that there are "many" people who are confused about it. I highly doubt that there are that many.

Passing Bye · Post by **Passing Bye** » Thu May 13, 2021 12:42 am

MISSY wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 12:10 am Not quite loud enough tbh ! I'll pass on your interpretation to the appropriate thread here with the many people who are just as confused with the TOS of Avenger. Have a beautiful day !

You asked for simple, I gave you simple, I made it big and bold, it's that simple:

You can use Avenger in commercial music, just don't sample it for making commercial sample packs, because oscillators can use their own sampled content, they don't let you share or re-sample that for making commercial sound packs or use it anywhere else, you can't redistribute their content for profit in any way, you can just make music with it and you can sell that same music, so Avenger is made to be used in your music.

Vengeance sample packs contain musical loops with copyrighted melodic content, so you can't use those in your music without permission of Vengeance, they aren't royalty free, google that term.

jancivil · Post by **jancivil** » Thu May 13, 2021 12:59 am

yep
[you may not] commercially use any compositions, melodies, melody-loops, lyrics, and vocal-samples or parts hereof from any Vengeance Samples or Audio Plugin Libraries. All rights on melodies, musical compositions, lyrics, vocals, and melody-loops included

is pretty clear

color me surprised
but you bettah off, loops are bad for you

VSTs DAWs and Commercial Music