Synths with aftertouch and velocity controls?

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
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KVRAF
15377 posts since 16 Sep, 2001 from Las Vegas,USA

Post Thu May 13, 2021 10:21 am

e-crooner wrote:
Thu May 13, 2021 10:09 am
Strange Funky's post seems to have disappeared 8)
It's still there in the Invader thread near the end of page 11.
e-crooner wrote:
Thu May 13, 2021 10:09 am
Anyway, so basically the AT wheel is not a performance control like the other two wheels, but a weird implementation of a mod slot or even a mere range specifier like the range field below the PB wheel?
That's the way it looks to me as well. The Wheel doesn't appear to send AT data.
e-crooner wrote:
Thu May 13, 2021 10:09 am
That is not what I am looking after, though, I am looking for a control that replaces a Midi controller sending AT signals.
Doesn't your midi controller have knobs or sliders that can be assigned to send AT data ?

I'm not aware of any synth that generates AT data. But they all respond to it..... :shrug:
None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

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KVRAF

Topic Starter

3107 posts since 22 Aug, 2019

Post Thu May 13, 2021 10:56 am

Teksonik wrote:
Thu May 13, 2021 10:21 am
e-crooner wrote:
Thu May 13, 2021 10:09 am
Strange Funky's post seems to have disappeared 8)
It's still there in the Invader thread near the end of page 11.
e-crooner wrote:
Thu May 13, 2021 10:09 am
Anyway, so basically the AT wheel is not a performance control like the other two wheels, but a weird implementation of a mod slot or even a mere range specifier like the range field below the PB wheel?
That's the way it looks to me as well. The Wheel doesn't appear to send AT data.
e-crooner wrote:
Thu May 13, 2021 10:09 am
That is not what I am looking after, though, I am looking for a control that replaces a Midi controller sending AT signals.
Doesn't your midi controller have knobs or sliders that can be assigned to send AT data ?

I'm not aware of any synth that generates AT data. But they all respond to it..... :shrug:
No, I have a very simple Midi controller, a 61-key Korg Microkey, which is great otherwise :) It only has two wheels and octave up/down buttons.

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KVRAF
15377 posts since 16 Sep, 2001 from Las Vegas,USA

Post Thu May 13, 2021 11:10 am

How about something like the Bome Midi Translator ? I believe it will allow you to map your Mod Wheel to send AT Data. There is a demo with only a time out limitation.

https://www.bome.com/products/miditranslator#downloads

Or maybe there is a Midi Effect Plugin that would translate MW to AT. Other than that I don't know how a synth plugin would generate AT data. Perhaps some do but I'm not aware of any.
None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

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KVRAF
6079 posts since 13 Nov, 2015 from Norway

Post Fri May 14, 2021 5:30 pm

PG8X
EnergyXT3 - Reaper | Roland SH201 - Waldorf Rocket |
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KVRAF
15377 posts since 16 Sep, 2001 from Las Vegas,USA

Post Fri May 14, 2021 6:15 pm

Halonmusic wrote:
Fri May 14, 2021 5:30 pm
PG8X
It doesn't generate AT it just responds to it like most if not all other synth plugins.

He wants the synth to generate AT since his controller can't.
None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

KVRAF
5710 posts since 9 Jul, 2002 from Helsinki

Post Fri May 14, 2021 8:39 pm

e-crooner wrote:
Wed May 12, 2021 11:07 am
.jon wrote:
Wed May 12, 2021 10:59 am
You can do this in Reaper- rclick track > MIDI track controls > show MIDI track control panel, enable Control Change and choose channel pressure for one, you get a slider.

Aftertouch is just a normal MIDI CC message.

Human brain is amazing and stupid, I haven't used Reaper in years so why do I still remember this.
Interesting, thanks.

Basically I would like that slider to be on the synth's GUI...
Well that you won't get, so maybe settle for a workaround that is in its own separate window you can no move anywhere.

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KVRAF
6079 posts since 13 Nov, 2015 from Norway

Post Sat May 15, 2021 5:04 am

Teksonik wrote:
Fri May 14, 2021 6:15 pm
Halonmusic wrote:
Fri May 14, 2021 5:30 pm
PG8X
It doesn't generate AT it just responds to it like most if not all other synth plugins.

He wants the synth to generate AT since his controller can't.
oh i misread OPs post then
EnergyXT3 - Reaper | Roland SH201 - Waldorf Rocket |
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KVRAF
2445 posts since 17 Sep, 2016

Post Sat May 15, 2021 2:52 pm

I wouldn't buy any controller that didn't have both velocity and aftertouch. Deal breaker! :dog:
Windows10; plugins from AAS, Ableton, AIR, Ample, Arturia, Cakewalk, Cherry, DiscoDSP, Fathom, IKM, Initial, iZotope, KV331, NI, PluginGuru, PreSonus, Surge, TAL, Tone2, Toontrack, Tracktion, u-he, UJAM, UVI, Vital, Waves, XLN ...

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KVRAF
15377 posts since 16 Sep, 2001 from Las Vegas,USA

Post Sat May 15, 2021 3:48 pm

I wouldn't either but controllers with AT do tend to be pricey and not everyone can afford them. Not sure what the least expensive controller with AT would be.
None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

KVRist
94 posts since 2 Mar, 2018

Post Tue May 18, 2021 6:25 pm

Am I missing something? I don't think you can use aftertouch if your keyboard doesn't support it; doesn't matter what the synth can do.

PS the least expensive controller I'm aware of with aftertouch is the Swissonic Controlkey 88 ($255). The Nektar Impact GPX88 isn't far behind ($320).

KVRer
5 posts since 16 Apr, 2021

Post Tue May 18, 2021 9:07 pm

mixyguy2 wrote:
Tue May 18, 2021 6:25 pm
Am I missing something? I don't think you can use aftertouch if your keyboard doesn't support it; doesn't matter what the synth can do.

PS the least expensive controller I'm aware of with aftertouch is the Swissonic Controlkey 88 ($255). The Nektar Impact GPX88 isn't far behind ($320).
You can use aftertouch by leveraging your DAW or specialized plug-ins to automate the MIDI continuous controller (cc) signal for the AT. One of the previous posters went over how to do that in Reaper. Cable Guys has a plug-in for automating cc signals, too. As Teksonik pointed out, there might be a way to remap the AT cc to mod wheel cc via a plug-in, but I also don't know if one exists. OP wants a wheel for generating the AT signal in more softsynths, but that is a feature that is rarely implemented.

FYI- Keystep 37 has AT (not poly-AT) and was selling for 169 USD recently. Some pad controllers have AT or poly AT for even less.

KVRAF
7065 posts since 7 Oct, 2005 from Auckland, NZ

Post Wed May 19, 2021 1:50 am

e-crooner wrote:
Thu May 13, 2021 10:56 am
Teksonik wrote:
Thu May 13, 2021 10:21 am
e-crooner wrote:
Thu May 13, 2021 10:09 am
Strange Funky's post seems to have disappeared 8)
It's still there in the Invader thread near the end of page 11.
e-crooner wrote:
Thu May 13, 2021 10:09 am
Anyway, so basically the AT wheel is not a performance control like the other two wheels, but a weird implementation of a mod slot or even a mere range specifier like the range field below the PB wheel?
That's the way it looks to me as well. The Wheel doesn't appear to send AT data.
e-crooner wrote:
Thu May 13, 2021 10:09 am
That is not what I am looking after, though, I am looking for a control that replaces a Midi controller sending AT signals.
Doesn't your midi controller have knobs or sliders that can be assigned to send AT data ?

I'm not aware of any synth that generates AT data. But they all respond to it..... :shrug:
No, I have a very simple Midi controller, a 61-key Korg Microkey, which is great otherwise :) It only has two wheels and octave up/down buttons.
I found for you not only one but several ;)

FXpansion DCAM SYNTH SQUAD and Strobe 2, which I have. I'm not sure about Cypher2 but Cypher and Strobe in DCAM Synth Squad are sure to have.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQK6dyl_5hs

They are also great synths! Search for DCAM Synth Squad in the 2nd hand market.
Main music setup: M1 Air with Live 11, MODX 6, KeyLab MK ii and some plugins.

KVRAF
28440 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Post Wed May 19, 2021 2:45 am

e-crooner wrote:
Thu May 13, 2021 10:09 am
Teksonik wrote:
Thu May 13, 2021 6:01 am
E-Crooner already got his answer. Yes Invader has an AT Wheel but.....
Funkybot's Evil Twin wrote:
Wed May 12, 2021 5:11 pm
e-crooner wrote:
Wed May 12, 2021 10:54 am
How does the Aftertouch wheel work?
When I select the filter frequency and move the AT wheel with the mouse, nothing happens...
You still need to transmit aftertouch messages for it to respond. But assuming you are, it acts as an Aftertouch depth parameter. So you set LFO1 to modulate pitch for example, then use the Aftertouch wheel assigned to LFO1...when you send it Aftertouch messages, you'll hear the modulation.
So no different than a Mod Matrix Source/Destination /Amount.

Even if you don't have a controller with AT many will allow you to assign a knob or slider to send AT data.
Strange Funky's post seems to have disappeared 8)

Anyway, so basically the AT wheel is not a performance control like the other two wheels, but a weird implementation of a mod slot or even a mere range specifier like the range field below the PB wheel?

That is not what I am looking after, though, I am looking for a control that replaces a Midi controller sending AT signals.
Why would you want that though? You have to operate a physical control the one or the other way anyway. Why not just turn a knob, instead of assigning Aftertouch to control the same parameter?

And why does it have to be Aftertouch? Could be a simple macro knob as well. Aftertouch is no different to any other kind of modulation.
Plugins and a DAW. On an operating system. Which runs on a computer.

KVRist
348 posts since 1 Jul, 2004

Post Wed May 19, 2021 8:24 am

At least when it comes to MPE capable controllers it imho makes a lot of difference between hypothetically contemplating how a sound might react when played on such an instrument and actually playing it with one. Often the very simple things that would be boring on a normal keyboard work best. So the most promising way to sound design for an MPE capable controller is probably by testing it with an actual MPE capable controller!

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KVRAF

Topic Starter

3107 posts since 22 Aug, 2019

Post Wed May 19, 2021 8:54 am

chk071 wrote:
Wed May 19, 2021 2:45 am
Why would you want that though? You have to operate a physical control the one or the other way anyway. Why not just turn a knob, instead of assigning Aftertouch to control the same parameter?

And why does it have to be Aftertouch? Could be a simple macro knob as well. Aftertouch is no different to any other kind of modulation.
That's not the point.
Of course I prefer a physical control, but what if there ain't none?
I remember that for some time I used a digital piano to play my virtual synths, so the virtual mod wheel made sense as the piano didn't have any.

Plus, if developers can include a virtual mod wheel, although I could also turn the cutoff or LFO knob itself, why would that not apply to aftertouch as well? As I said earlier, some synths even support, or at least emulate (without Midi data?), velocity on their virtual keyboards, Sylenth1, Retrologue 2, etc.

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