Why do I seem to like free synths better ?

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
KVRian
889 posts since 29 Oct, 2015 from Jupiter 8

Post Sun Jun 13, 2021 6:12 am

People who paint know that more colors means the wider range of paintings they can create. My point about limiting a painter to the color blue is not absurd it makes a perfectly valid point. Try to create a painting of anything that is not blue.
so you are saying a good painter should have north of 10 million different paint tins (or how many colors the human eye can discern again) in his wardrobe or basement?

I really don't know anything about painting, but i remember some mad american (IIRC ) genius painter from the 70's or 80's on TV who mixed his colors himself of a select color palette as required.

I know for sure though, that the painters in our company, while having quite an arsenal of different paint, still mix a lot to obtain the required color most of the time.
And that's my point, you choose the sounds you use to convey the type of music you want to create. If you limit yourself to only analog type sounds then all your songs are going to be limited to that sonic footprint. Now add in 8 Op FM synthesis and the range of sounds you can create expands. Add in multi-sampling based synthesis and your possibilities expand exponentially.
And how many 8OP FM synths do you need? 1 or 2? 3? Or better be safe and have 20+ of them?

Unless of course you want every one of your songs to have exactly the same sonic footprint then more power to you. That would bore me to death.
I don't think this has to be the case, even with relatively few gear, unless you always make/use the same sounds.
It also doesn't apply to samplers at all (unless again you continuously use the same sounds)
A lot of the flavors can also be altered through different processing
And of course there's nothing wrong with re-using the same sounds.
Most people would be hard pressed to realize if you changed your real piano or guitar on your new album.
And there's a crap ton of people who are explicitly lusting for world famous sounds of the Minimoog, TB-303, SH-101, TR-808, etc. as accurately reproduced ad presets in their favorite (soft)synths, so re-use of “same old sounds“ should not even be that much of an issue for many.
There's still different processing and last, but not least different song structures / compositions that should still make songs discernible from each other.
That's how music has been done for thousands of years
Last edited by FapFilter on Sun Jun 13, 2021 6:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
There's no Logic to Windows

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addled muppet weed
86091 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass

Post Sun Jun 13, 2021 6:13 am

bob ross.

KVRian
889 posts since 29 Oct, 2015 from Jupiter 8

Post Sun Jun 13, 2021 6:15 am

it is about preference, but you're still presenting asymmetrically. a minimal set of tools is no requirement for creative work, even on a professional level.
I'm sorry that my english is apparently so bad that you basically have to repeat the same things i said
There's no Logic to Windows

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Beware the Quoth
30016 posts since 4 Sep, 2001 from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair

Post Sun Jun 13, 2021 6:44 am

FapFilter wrote:
Sun Jun 13, 2021 6:15 am
it is about preference, but you're still presenting asymmetrically. a minimal set of tools is no requirement for creative work, even on a professional level.
I'm sorry that my english is apparently so bad that you basically have to repeat the same things i said
No, not repeating it, just making sure the corollary is made specific, given that you keep omitting it in exactly the same way.

In an X versus Y conversation, always only ever saying 'X is not required' and repeatedly expecting substantiation of Y but not X is asymmetric. Im just helping you balance with some 'Y is not required, X isnt being substantiated either'.

So, yeah, you're welcome for the assist.
Last edited by whyterabbyt on Sun Jun 13, 2021 6:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
This signature tells the story really, as quoting insults directed at me makes me someone with an over-inflated ego.

KVRAF
4243 posts since 21 Mar, 2020 from Gothenburg, Sweden

Post Sun Jun 13, 2021 6:44 am

Teksonik wrote:
Sun Jun 13, 2021 5:35 am
People who paint know that more colors means the wider range of paintings they can create.
That is utter bollocks! I am a trained artist who studied in Swindon Art College and has continued to study and practice for decades and frequently watches online videos from artists who are much better than myself. They will all tell you the same thing. SIMPLIFY FORM, LIMIT YOUR VALUES TO 5 OR 6 AND USE A LIMITED COLOUR PALETTE. Of course, there are different styles and some of these use more colours but the greatest artists throughout history are very subdued in their palettes. Do some research here before spouting crap!
Bah! Humbug!

KVRAF
3001 posts since 5 Nov, 2014

Post Sun Jun 13, 2021 6:49 am

Exactly!

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GRRRRRRR!
12577 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle

Post Sun Jun 13, 2021 6:52 am

chk071 wrote:
Sat Jun 12, 2021 2:36 am
Synth1 doesn't sound nearly as good as Massive X, or other payware synths though.
Says you. Depending on what you want, Synth 1 can sound pretty damned impressive. You can talk about how badly it aliases in certain situations and all the rest of it but the reality is that it's a synth you could use it in 100 different songs and never hear any of that.
It's limited to 32 voices, which sucks when you use unison as well. It's filters aren't up to par with better payware, it sounds thin compared. The fx' suck. IMO.
There are expensive synths that have less than 32 voices, 90% of the time it doesn't matter how the filters sound, thinness in a mix can be helpful and who cares if the effects aren't any good when you can easily add your own Insert and send effects? Those things might be reasons not to pay money for a synth but if it's free, why not?
chk071 wrote:
Sat Jun 12, 2021 2:53 am
You know... I don't think any violinist would argue about a $50 violin from Amazon sounding worse than a Stradivari. :shrug:
But who would be able to pick which it was being played by the 3rd violinist in an orchestral piece?
I wasted so much time on inferior stuff (free- and magware)that I only can recommend every beginner who has at least a bit of motivation to start with a good payware synth (considering you demo'd thoroughly to find out what suits you).
OTOH, we made four albums using 99% freeware (and bundled instruments) and they sound great. In fact, one of them spent two weeks at no. 1.
crickey13 wrote:
Sat Jun 12, 2021 5:30 am
This somewhat makes sense, but you also have to factor in variety. The problem with the freeware "market" is that 80 to 90% of it is some kind of VA stuff. If you want high-quality digital with extensive modulation capabilities, then you're limited to a few options in the freeware realm.
But what if you don't want any of that rubbish? I certainly don't. A couple of simple V/As is all I need.
Surge and Vital are the kings, fantastic synths, but outside of that, there is only like Full Bucket ModulAir, maybe Dexed, maybe Odin, possibly Ocean Swift synths, maybe a couple of others.
Sounds like a lifetime of great music, right there.
I don't think there are plenty of free softsynths with ZDF filters, few offer convincing audio rate mod, lots of them are quite unstable.
I don't need ZDF filters or audio rate modulation and, in my experience 99% of all VSTi are incredibly stable, freeware or payware.
All in all, you're essentially paying for support
More shit I don't need.

Honestly, use what you want, who cares? My two most used VSTi cost me $29 (JP6K) and $9 (Union) and I probably have a grand's worth of VSTi that I never use and never want to use again.
NOVAkILL : Zenbook Duo, Core i7, 16GB RAM, Win10(64), Evo8 | Studio One | JP6K, Union, Hexeract, bx_oberhausen, Odyssey, TRK-01, Vacuum Pro, Invader, Concept, GR-8, Thorn, Equator, VG Iron 2 | Uno Pro Desktop, Uno, Rocket.

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KVRist
205 posts since 2 Nov, 2017

Post Sun Jun 13, 2021 6:54 am

dellboy wrote:
Sat Jun 12, 2021 2:45 am
chk071 wrote:
Sat Jun 12, 2021 2:36 am

Synth1 doesn't sound nearly as good as Massive X, or other payware synths though.
And of course a Gibson guitar sounds better than a Strat.

And give me a Steinway over Bosendorfer any day !

Big Mac versus Burger King etc etc ad infinitum.
Ridiculous comparisons. Steinway and Bosendorfer are both expensive and don’t sound the same. Gibson vs. Strat - mostly same price points, different sound. This has nothing to do with the fact that generally pay-for synths sound better than freebies. They’re also generally more complex. I don’t think Surge is a valid comparison because it didn’t start as free. And Vital is free in the sense that the developer hopes that people like the thing and pay for a subscription. It is still a commercial product, just different from buy-once like u-He.

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KVRist
205 posts since 2 Nov, 2017

Post Sun Jun 13, 2021 7:00 am

dellboy wrote:
Sat Jun 12, 2021 3:08 am
chk071 wrote:
Sat Jun 12, 2021 2:53 am
No need for insecure threads asking for confirmation.
Pot kettle black ?
I think you need to reevaluate what that phrase means ;) chk701 wasn’t the one who posted a very odd question “why do i like free over paid? Anyone else like me?”. Who knows. If it works for you then use it but just posting something like this indicates some nagging thought in your brain that there is something wrong with this so you’re asking for confirmation. What makes it weirder is that you then say you spend a lot of money on hardware.

KVRAF

Topic Starter

1777 posts since 28 Mar, 2007

Post Sun Jun 13, 2021 7:21 am

jasonekratz wrote:
Sun Jun 13, 2021 6:54 am



Ridiculous comparisons. Steinway and Bosendorfer are both expensive and don’t sound the same. Gibson vs. Strat - mostly same price points, different sound. This has nothing to do with the fact that generally pay-for synths sound better than freebies. They’re also generally more complex. I don’t think Surge is a valid comparison because it didn’t start as free. And Vital is free in the sense that the developer hopes that people like the thing and pay for a subscription. It is still a commercial product, just different from buy-once like u-He.
I guess what I said has been lost in translation.

I was generalising.

Some people (not me personally ) would like one product over another. Some people (not me personally) prefer a Gibson over a Strat etc. etc. Taste is subjective is the general idea.

KVRian
889 posts since 29 Oct, 2015 from Jupiter 8

Post Sun Jun 13, 2021 7:28 am

vurt wrote:
Sun Jun 13, 2021 6:13 am
bob ross.
Yup, that's most likely the one i was referring to.
I was pretty young and my memory regarding names has always been dreadful, but this one rings a bell.

Most things i remember from his vids was something in the line of “a little touch here and there“ while making a few seemingly mundane hand moves, instantly resulting in some of the most jaw dropping awesome “shit“ :o
There's no Logic to Windows

KVRAF

Topic Starter

1777 posts since 28 Mar, 2007

Post Sun Jun 13, 2021 7:36 am

jasonekratz wrote:
Sun Jun 13, 2021 7:00 am


I think you need to reevaluate what that phrase means ;) chk701 wasn’t the one who posted a very odd question “why do i like free over paid? Anyone else like me?”.
Maybe the question is a bit odd, who cares, it reflects my personality. I am who I am, no apologies.

The question was not aimed at you or chk701, but at like minded people who experience the same thing that I do. That is, that, you may own commercial software that is technically better, but find yourself using inferior freeware.

There is nothing odd about my buying hardware, as I found that I was more and more turning to software emulations of old hardware when I looked for a certain sound I wanted. And believe me there is nothing like the hands on experience of hardware. Its just so tactile. So I bought two Junos because I like the sound and the hands on experience. Again, taste is subjective.

And may I say for posterity that I have absolutely nothing against commercial software, I have spent quite a lot of money on it and will buy more in the future. I am most certainly not in the "freeware only" camp. For instance I want a better sampler now that I am back into sampling hardware.

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KVRAF
1504 posts since 10 Oct, 2018

Post Sun Jun 13, 2021 8:27 am

Correction: I was mistaken about the way "Waterfalls" was created (at 6:24):
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IRJ28A-ALtk

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addled muppet weed
86091 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass

Post Sun Jun 13, 2021 8:30 am

excuse me please wrote:
Sun Jun 13, 2021 8:27 am
Correction: I was mistaken about the way "Waterfalls" was created (at 6:24):
it was painted, by bob ross, with a little touch of blue here, just a light touch of green...

KVRist
320 posts since 10 Oct, 2018

Post Sun Jun 13, 2021 9:07 am

Didn't read the entire thread, but have some considerations.
1) Regarding bang for the buck, free synths are naturally better
2) For bang for your time, not so much.
So, if your time is more important then a buck, commercial synths are the way to go.
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Godin Redline, Kuassa, Fuse Audio, Audiority, Roland A-500pro, Dune, Dagger, ANA, GForce, Reaper

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