Arps in Synths

[Teksonik]

You might like it, but nobody needs it,

It's a good idea to avoid terms like "nobody" or "everybody" since you don't speak for anyone but yourself.

The argument to have it in a single preset isn’t too strong either, as that is a functionality your host should deliver (like in Bitwig).

It's a very strong argument when you realize synth presets can be used in more than one DAW. I find having everything in a preset much more efficient that faffing about in any DAW but that's just me and I don't pretend to speak for everyone or anyone other than myself.

I suspect its just for the sound designers which have to come up with sounds and sequences which sell the thing…

I haven't sold a patch in years but I use my own Arp/Seq patches every day and in every project. That's just the way I like to work.

A missing arpeggiator will never ever prevent you from using an arpeggiator. Your music gets done, its not a limitation at all

A missing filter will never prevent you from using an external filter. Your music will get done it's not a limitation at all....

But it's not just about getting done it's about getting more done by being efficient and efficiency will vary from person to person.

I find built in Arp/Seqs indispensable to the way I work and you don't. Neither of us are right and neither of us are wrong. We simply work in different ways......

[pdxindy]

A missing arpeggiator will never ever prevent you from using an arpeggiator. Your music gets done, its not a limitation at all

A missing filter will never prevent you from using an external filter. Your music will get done it's not a limitation at all....

But it's not just about getting done it's about getting more done by being efficient and efficiency will vary from person to person.

I find built in Arp/Seqs indispensable to the way I work and you don't. Neither of us are right and neither of us are wrong. We simply work in different ways......

I'm in the middle...

I value having built-in arp/sequencers in synths. I often end up using the Bitwig Arp because it responds to MPE playing and it is easy to do creative stuff with it that I cannot do with built-in arps.

[Tj Shredder]

You might like it, but nobody needs it,

It's a good idea to avoid terms like "nobody" or "everybody" since you don't speak for anyone but yourself.

I must admit this was purposely provokative. (Nobody needs a synth, especially if you are hungry.) It was a reaction to the op’s demand, as with missing arpeggiators you are not completely lost. Its fine to demand it and want it, but its definitely not as essential as a filter. You can’t work around a missing filter with its envelope, at least its hard for monophonic and almost impossible for polyphonic synths… Working around a missing arpeggiator takes less time than writing a post on KVR, but it would take a lot of time for a dev to implement it…

[jancivil]

I don't go with 'arpeggiator crucial for sound design' as a general statement. I'm sure it was said with something specific in mind, where I'm sure it's true for the one who said it for those things.
But I have never actually used an arpeggiator to get an arpeggio together, or haven't noticed any synth plugin I use has it in the design.
I have used sequencers in instruments for reasons (as well as pretty elaborate LFO and rhythmic delay) but breaking a chord into its parts was not the reason. . Sure, some synths have integrated it in the design in a way a MIDI plugin isn't. There are other ideas of music than repeating arpeggi, a pretty specific style characteristic in the bigger picture, so, essential, donno about that. Once erpon a time there wasn't one, unless a mad scientist had some way.

[Razzia]

If you can stomach codemeter protection, maybe try demoing Avenger if arps are important to you. It’s got, IMHO, the best arp I’ve seen on a synth or standalone plugin.

[Teksonik]

You can’t work around a missing filter

I've done tons of patches that don't use a filter so it's possible to work around a missing filter.

Working around a missing arpeggiator takes less time than writing a post on KVR,

Not if you understand that a built in Arpeggiator is part of a synth and the sounds it can make. Tacking on an external Arp won't get you the same results just as tacking on an external filter won't give you the same results.

it would take a lot of time for a dev to implement it…

And? I imagine it would take a lot of time to implement MPE support or microtuning support or a fancy preset browser which are all things I don't want or need but I understand that other people do.

[pdxindy]

You can’t work around a missing filter with its envelope, at least its hard for monophonic and almost impossible for polyphonic synths… Working around a missing arpeggiator takes less time than writing a post on KVR, but it would take a lot of time for a dev to implement it…

I appreciate synths that have arps, but as you say, external is easy so a synth that has no arp would not affect my decision to buy it.

Here I'm using the Arp in Bitwig to play a single Hive patch... this example is from a single clip with one long midi note. Not many synths have a built-in Arp than could do this... so it is not like external arps are less capable than built-in ones.

https://dandelionaudio.com/sound/B-arp.mp3

[BONES]

Speaking of Arps...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOgBbSZae-k

When did Haken get involved with Osmose? That still looks like a hand-made prototype to me and the price is a little on the high side.

You might like it, but nobody needs it, same with other fx especially reverbs. The argument to have it in a single preset isn’t too strong either, as that is a functionality your host should deliver (like in Bitwig).
I suspect its just for the sound designers which have to come up with sounds and sequences which sell the thing…

Yeah, it's something I see when involved in beta testing - most of the beta-testers are there to help make the factory preset banks so most of the feedback the dev gets is from people whose only interest is in making presets and they want everything built into the synth. From what I've seen, it definitely skews development towards that kind of thing.

I used to rebel against it by turning off all the on-board effects but these days I just go with it and instead I have pretty much stopped using Insert and Send effects.

[pdxindy]

Speaking of Arps...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOgBbSZae-k

When did Haken get involved with Osmose? That still looks like a hand-made prototype to me and the price is a little on the high side.

Haken has been involved from the beginning. Osmose uses the same synth engine as the Continuum. The EaganMatrix

[phreaque]

Whether they are complex Midi phrase sequencers or simplest classic arps, they can be used as modulation sources to control parameters (many plugins implement this approach).

[Ah_Dziz]

I can't see any downside to having an arp built into a synth. I don't use them too often, but they are fun when you want/ need them.

[pixel85]

Sequencers and Arp can be a great addition to the synth. Especially when it's something like sequencer in Pigments - this stuff is not available in every DAW so there's no excuse á la "but you can do it in DAW".
I wish more synths had this type of sequencer/arp.

[Tj Shredder]

Get a good arp vst and all of your synths can be arpeggiated with it… You could fulfill your wish if you wish. That is my point…
For example: most included arps do not arpeggiate in the order I play. That is the mode I like most. Then I need to use an extra arp anyway, seems like a waist of code and UI real estate and learning resources to me. And I can assure, internal or external, arps sound the same, they don’t have a sound of their own. They differ in features, and a dedicated arp should have more features than a built in, as this is its main purpose…
If I want a specific feature for an arp I am missing I can request that feature to the arp programmer, good luck with getting this feature into all the synths with arps - no, forget it, give up on that…

[Fraggle]

Sequencers and Arp can be a great addition to the synth. Especially when it's something like sequencer in Pigments - this stuff is not available in every DAW so there's no excuse á la "but you can do it in DAW".
I wish more synths had this type of sequencer/arp.

100% agree. - I too wish more synths (and maybe DAWs too) had arps like the one in Pigments. Max for live had some sequencers a few years ago that had randomization, but Max was never stable for me (every other audio software was stable - only max devices crashed Ableton. - but that was 8 years ago)......so , yes, please more Arp like the Pigments one

I tried kirnu cream many years ago, but it was so so fiddly to use...the pigments arp does so much but is also intuitive and not over cluttered UI.

[PieBerger]

Classic KVR, a bunch of middle aged men arguing over whether or not arpeggiators are useful in synths or not. Let's just do away with MIDI and synths altogether because you can simply sequence audio in your DAW