KVR Audio

hinson · Post by **hinson** » Wed Jun 16, 2021 7:00 pm

One guy managed to reconstruct the bass from Snap Rhytm is A Dancer quite nicely, but he used real synthesizers.
Is it possible to do this with VST plugins?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=P4fhjBMUhOo&t

juno987654321 · Post by **juno987654321** » Wed Jun 16, 2021 8:44 pm

We can find this further and quite essential information in the video description:

"It’s basically 2 TX81z factory presets. “LatelyBass” (which is used as is) and “ElecBass 2” (which is imported into FM8 and given a more percussive envelope). A bit of delay and reverb. No unison, no saturation, no magic. One of those fringe cases where the patch sounds bigger in the mix than it actually is. I’ve only added a bit of EQ and dynamics to prevent it from walking all over the original baseline."

Tbh: "Lately bass" is FM-based and it is a mystery to me on its own already, so it would be challenging enough to reconstruct that for a start and see if we could get any further if we manage to do it. That's how I would approach it...

CHOOS · Post by **CHOOS** » Fri Jun 18, 2021 7:49 am

If someone can open that preset in FM8 and show the waveforms used and the fm signal-flow then we/I could try to replicate it.

BUT
because most of the audio is filtered away by the lowpass filter it becomes more important to get the filter envelope and resonance settings close to the original.
Then I would play around with some random FM settings till it sounds similar

juno987654321 · Post by **juno987654321** » Fri Jun 18, 2021 9:22 am

Choos, I'll check later in the day what I got. I think I found the lately bass somewhere in my plugins and maybe I could also find the other preset. It's just that it's still very hard for me to see through everything that the operators do. Lately bass was on my to do list for later when I would progress to the FM plugins anyways.

CHOOS · Post by **CHOOS** » Fri Jun 18, 2021 9:39 am

I know Ive made the lately bass a few times now on different synths.
I can't right now remember what exactly it is but I do remember that it's a very simple bass and that's why I've never understood why it's so popular.

Then again basic bread and butter sounds are there in every synth and preset pack for a reason.

surreal · Post by **surreal** » Fri Jun 18, 2021 12:43 pm

CHOOS wrote: ↑Fri Jun 18, 2021 9:39 am I know Ive made the lately bass a few times now on different synths.
I can't right now remember what exactly it is but I do remember that it's a very simple bass and that's why I've never understood why it's so popular.

Then again basic bread and butter sounds are there in every synth and preset pack for a reason.

Choos can you please help me to replicate the synth sounds of Leila K open sesame.. it is the two organ stab sounds in the song.

juno987654321 · Post by **juno987654321** » Fri Jun 18, 2021 7:33 pm

Alright Choos. I have just sent the screenshots and wav file to your email. I found something.
I'll see if I can find the other preset, too, and maybe have a look at the other FM plugins.
They may also have the preset, maybe slightly differently programmed.
Today was too busy. I couldn't do too much on my computer cause I had to do some other stuff as well...

CHOOS · Post by **CHOOS** » Fri Jun 18, 2021 9:12 pm

This gets you a similar patch without needing a typical FM synth.
https://vimeo.com/564809410
Vital Presets

BA - Lately Bass.zip

juno987654321 · Post by **juno987654321** » Sat Jun 19, 2021 12:01 pm

I think the 2nd preset that the guy on youtube took "E. bass 2" is the one which can be sampled from here
at 1:40 min.:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0Dt5TJQBG4

That would be the next step.
Then both could be mixed together if this one could also be recreated without an FM synth?

juno987654321 · Post by **juno987654321** » Sat Jun 19, 2021 1:01 pm

Choos, could you make any sense of the FM screenshots I sent you for the FM patch on Lately Bass?
I tried to understand some of it today.
I found out that OP 1 and 2 don't do anything. They just chose the algorithm because it's good for OP 3-6. OP1 and 2 are inactive. You can ignore them completely.
It's just 4 OPs (OP3-6).

OP 3 is the basic sine.
OP 4 does something to the sine below it so the sound changes into some kind of a saw.
OP 5 is used to modulate everything below further. It adds a little bit of upper harmonics again.
OP 6 finally adds higher frequencies somehow in relation to velocity sensitivity and it has that feedback loop to it so opening the filter might be one thing it does, but maybe more.

I wonder if you could figure out something more concrete and exactly that is happening here if it is done in FM synths
and if you could explain what the OPs actually really do here a bit?
I can't figure out what the parameters and numbers in the screenshots exactly mean yet.

CHOOS · Post by **CHOOS** » Sat Jun 19, 2021 1:34 pm

Hey
I'm away for the weekend so no way of checking but I also don't have FM8

The lately bass is really just 2 saws
There no FM going on.

juno987654321 · Post by **juno987654321** » Sat Jun 19, 2021 2:51 pm

That's hard to believe cause it's always pointed out as THE example for FM that entered pop music
but I do believe that you can get some good approximation with subtractive synths, yeah!

Is it true that FM is most of the time really PHASE modulation (!) and what happens is not that the frequency is being modulated
but really it's as if we put an LFO to the phase knob in Serum so the phase of a wave changes its position all the time?
Frequency modulation would just be a vibrato but that's not what typically happens to the sounds, is it?

CHOOS · Post by **CHOOS** » Sat Jun 19, 2021 4:05 pm

I have had FM being explained to me but I don't get it really get it and it's not important enough to me to go and read about it as I dont use it often enough.
I know how to drive but can't fix an engine.

I can confirm that in vst's it's actually phase modulation and in hardware I do believe it's actual frequency modulation but the end result it's kinda the same

juno987654321 · Post by **juno987654321** » Sat Jun 19, 2021 6:43 pm

Most of the sounds can be approached in usual subtractive synths if only you know how to do this properly and if there's FM, then Serum and Vital often offer enough to put SOME of it in there, too.
That's why I also will only deal with FM and all the other stuff very gradually and only later dive more into it.
It's probably better to first be able to use subtractive synths sovereignly enough before moving on to other things. Still I feel that I gradually get more interested to know something more about the other fields in sound design, too...

Maybe someone will add a little information for us about how the 4 OPs work on that preset in FM?
If not, then I'll find out some day later. It will all come naturally...

CHOOS · Post by **CHOOS** » Sun Jun 20, 2021 7:23 pm

Lately bass compared to simple subtractive synth sound
https://vimeo.com/565335139

How to make this Eurodance bass?