Why you left Ableton?

Plug-in hosts and other software applications discussion
KVRer
8 posts since 5 Feb, 2021

Post Fri Jun 18, 2021 1:01 pm

Have not left Live in fact finally bought it this winter. I don't play live and don't plan to do it, use only arrangement view. Trying Logic Pro in parallel and for my purposes Logic looks a better tool.
Love Ableton's UI and devices, workflow is fast (search is amazing). Some things I don't love so far:
1) Max4Live - maybe I don't understand it, but Live heavily relies on it.
2) Really slow compared to Logic (open/save/close, loading a lot of audio files is way slower)
3) Not the best workflow for mixing, imo.

I have read/heard same complaints from friends/youtube/forums.
Though, it's very subjective and anyway even with these point Live feels dandy and as a dev myself can say updating such apps is not easy.

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KVRAF
19444 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Post Fri Jun 18, 2021 1:29 pm

SLiC wrote:
Fri Jun 18, 2021 11:38 am
pdxindy wrote:
Fri Jun 18, 2021 11:29 am
I'm looking forward to the Osmose cause it will have piano (like) keys instead of the pad approach of the Linnstrument. Sometimes I just like playing keys, so I think they will complement each other well.
Ditto- I am hoping they stay on track now and it comes for Xmas, talk about delayed gratification!
It looks like that unit is the 'final' production model as it has the angled pitch and mod wheels...
For myself, I refuse to put any timeline on it. Delayed gratification would be splendid... that means there is eventually some gratification! :party:

at the moment, the S2400 is much closer and is sure so I am more excited about that.

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KVRAF
19444 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Post Fri Jun 18, 2021 1:34 pm

kimearo wrote:
Fri Jun 18, 2021 1:01 pm
Have not left Live in fact finally bought it this winter. I don't play live and don't plan to do it, use only arrangement view. Trying Logic Pro in parallel and for my purposes Logic looks a better tool.
Love Ableton's UI and devices, workflow is fast (search is amazing). Some things I don't love so far:
1) Max4Live - maybe I don't understand it, but Live heavily relies on it.
2) Really slow compared to Logic (open/save/close, loading a lot of audio files is way slower)
3) Not the best workflow for mixing, imo.

I have read/heard same complaints from friends/youtube/forums.
Though, it's very subjective and anyway even with these point Live feels dandy and as a dev myself can say updating such apps is not easy.
Choosing between Live and Logic, I would pick Logic.

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KVRAF
7196 posts since 7 Oct, 2005 from Auckland, NZ

Post Fri Jun 18, 2021 2:08 pm

I can’t choose between Live and Logic because they are different. But between Bitwig and Live I choose Live because of the good hardware support and for my workflow, Live is faster. For example, I use markers a lot and I jump a lot among them. Here, Bitwig is pathetic and no way to set a marker other than right click a header and add it! No shortcuts and no hardware support. I really thought they’ll improve it in version 4, but nothing. In Live I use nanoKontrol “set” marker while playing then just jump between them with the arrow buttons. The best DAW in this regard is Reaper! Just ctrl + number, mark it, then just hit that number and you are there!

Between S1 and Logic, I choose Logic but in Windows I choose S1 over Cubase. Anyway, I’m trying to concentrate on Live 11 now on both platform waiting for a native support for Apple Silicon chip (although it run fine under Rosetta).

I don’t use MPE at all. It’s even rare using the old aftertouch! I also avoid using any Max4Live device! M4L seems will never be smooth! It’s heavy and clunky!

KVRist
107 posts since 24 Oct, 2015

Post Fri Jun 18, 2021 2:44 pm

For me Max for Live has definitely improved a lot, whith Live 11 I’ve finally found I don’t avoid using something just because it’s max based.

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KVRAF
7196 posts since 7 Oct, 2005 from Auckland, NZ

Post Fri Jun 18, 2021 6:08 pm

Dalle wrote:
Fri Jun 18, 2021 2:44 pm
For me Max for Live has definitely improved a lot, whith Live 11 I’ve finally found I don’t avoid using something just because it’s max based.
Do you mean they improved the performance? I still find loading some presets that includes M4L devices slow and lagging little bit. Maybe compared to previous versions, it is now good?
I'll give it a good try (especially interested in the modulators like lfo and envelope).

KVRAF
7702 posts since 2 Dec, 2004 from North Wales

Post Sat Jun 19, 2021 1:49 am

EnGee wrote:
Fri Jun 18, 2021 6:08 pm
Dalle wrote:
Fri Jun 18, 2021 2:44 pm
For me Max for Live has definitely improved a lot, whith Live 11 I’ve finally found I don’t avoid using something just because it’s max based.
Do you mean they improved the performance? I still find loading some presets that includes M4L devices slow and lagging little bit. Maybe compared to previous versions, it is now good?
I'll give it a good try (especially interested in the modulators like lfo and envelope).
Its snappy for me (Max claim twice as fast on a MAC and up to 20X faster on a PC)

I just opened Live and then a MAX device (Video Theremin- so much fun if you have a web cam!) and it was pretty much instant. Switching to the MAX editor (opening the patcher) takes a few seconds the first time you do it- faster after that (I guess it sits in the background once opened).

Live has some amazing modulators built in- Obviously an LFO, ADSR, Envelope Follower etc, but the main tool is the multimode MSEG 'shaper' which can do most tasks well...

https://youtu.be/lezwaqX5_hA

There are obviously 1000's of other modulators you can download in MAX, some are worth paying for...I recommend the Live Modulation Pack (https://www.ableton.com/en/packs/modulators/ add in, £29) and if you want probably the most interesting and powerful LFO I have come across, LFO Cluster!

https://youtu.be/cwLy6oKco2Q
PC, Studio One, BWS, Live, FL Studio, Renoise, Reason, X32 Desk, Hardware Synths, Drum Machines + Eurorack, TD27 V Drums, Guitars & Basses

KVRist
107 posts since 24 Oct, 2015

Post Sat Jun 19, 2021 4:38 am

EnGee wrote:
Fri Jun 18, 2021 6:08 pm
Dalle wrote:
Fri Jun 18, 2021 2:44 pm
For me Max for Live has definitely improved a lot, whith Live 11 I’ve finally found I don’t avoid using something just because it’s max based.
Do you mean they improved the performance? I still find loading some presets that includes M4L devices slow and lagging little bit. Maybe compared to previous versions, it is now good?
I'll give it a good try (especially interested in the modulators like lfo and envelope).
Yeah I think the performance is better, Live 10 was a big improvement but to me 11 feels even snappier and there seems to be more quality devices. Also a lot of devices look like native Live devices now, which helps even if it’s just cosmetic. And stuff like midi routing has been improved.
Last edited by Dalle on Sat Jun 19, 2021 4:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

KVRist
107 posts since 24 Oct, 2015

Post Sat Jun 19, 2021 4:38 am

Double post

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KVRist
347 posts since 29 Apr, 2019

Post Sat Jun 19, 2021 4:42 am

EnGee wrote:
Fri Jun 18, 2021 2:08 pm
I can’t choose between Live and Logic because they are different. But between Bitwig and Live I choose Live because of the good hardware support and for my workflow, Live is faster. For example, I use markers a lot and I jump a lot among them. Here, Bitwig is pathetic and no way to set a marker other than right click a header and add it! No shortcuts and no hardware support. I really thought they’ll improve it in version 4, but nothing. In Live I use nanoKontrol “set” marker while playing then just jump between them with the arrow buttons. The best DAW in this regard is Reaper! Just ctrl + number, mark it, then just hit that number and you are there!

Between S1 and Logic, I choose Logic but in Windows I choose S1 over Cubase. Anyway, I’m trying to concentrate on Live 11 now on both platform waiting for a native support for Apple Silicon chip (although it run fine under Rosetta).

I don’t use MPE at all. It’s even rare using the old aftertouch! I also avoid using any Max4Live device! M4L seems will never be smooth! It’s heavy and clunky!
....
No shortcuts?
:hihi: you obviously didn't even open the program.

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KVRAF
7196 posts since 7 Oct, 2005 from Auckland, NZ

Post Sat Jun 19, 2021 4:58 am

@SLIC and Dalle:
Thanks guys 😀 I'll check all your info tomorrow morning :) I've just finished a crash course about Live 11 and I'm ready to record and edit my ideas in this wonderful DAW.

@MuzicFreq:
Tell me then what is the shortcut to set a marker!

KVRAF
3477 posts since 30 May, 2006 from Hollow Earth

Post Sat Jun 19, 2021 5:07 am

EnGee wrote:
Sat Jun 19, 2021 4:58 am
@SLIC and Dalle:
Thanks guys 😀 I'll check all your info tomorrow morning :) I've just finished a crash course about Live 11 and I'm ready to record and edit my ideas in this wonderful DAW.

@MuzicFreq:
Tell me then what is the shortcut to set a marker!
Don’t forget Modulat from Isotonik!
Diva - Dune - Omnisphere - Serum - Spire

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KVRist
347 posts since 29 Apr, 2019

Post Sat Jun 19, 2021 5:11 am

EnGee wrote:
Sat Jun 19, 2021 4:58 am
@SLIC and Dalle:
Thanks guys 😀 I'll check all your info tomorrow morning :) I've just finished a crash course about Live 11 and I'm ready to record and edit my ideas in this wonderful DAW.

@MuzicFreq:
Tell me then what is the shortcut to set a marker!
You were not specific about a certain shortcut and bundled it in the same sentence as no hardware support.

KVRian
659 posts since 17 Oct, 2018

Post Sat Jun 19, 2021 5:25 am

MuzikFreq wrote:
Sat Jun 19, 2021 5:11 am
EnGee wrote:
Sat Jun 19, 2021 4:58 am
@SLIC and Dalle:
Thanks guys 😀 I'll check all your info tomorrow morning :) I've just finished a crash course about Live 11 and I'm ready to record and edit my ideas in this wonderful DAW.

@MuzicFreq:
Tell me then what is the shortcut to set a marker!

 
You were not specific about a certain shortcut and bundled it in the same sentence as no hardware support.

 
It looked pretty specific to me. If you actually read the whole paragraph you would have seen that they were specifically talking about markers in the preceding sentence. So it stands to reason that the sentence you are referring is talking about markers not having shortcut or hardware support.
Studio One 5.2 // Bitwig 3.3.4 // Logic Pro X 10.6 // Ableton 11 // Reason 11 // MPC // Force // Maschine

lpr
Banned
183 posts since 28 Dec, 2016

Post Sat Jun 19, 2021 5:44 am

Ableton costs too much to maintain. The piano roll and the everything on one screen is a drag as well.

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