from the abyss, to the abyss [electronic] UPDATE: new kick :P

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KVRist
299 posts since 21 May, 2020 from germany

Post Tue Jun 22, 2021 9:24 am

After recognizing (and hearing from others), i changed the kick (it's still a bit in the background when the bass kicks in...). Now it sounds like that (original see down below) - what do you think is better?:
https://soundcloud.com/treib-haus-81860 ... eq3mb-edit


I'm usually not a fan of program music, but this time there is a story behind the track.

i imagine a creature that comes out of the abyss, slowly and inexorably, all fears and worries of mankind manifest the monstrosity that devours everything on its path - and suddenly it returns to the abyss.

I didn't smoke anything ...

if something does not fit in the mix, I am very grateful for a few hints. as always, i'm not entirely happy with the end result (the kick...) - if i am happy one day, i'm going to have a party. :party:

https://soundcloud.com/treib-haus-81860 ... q3-mb-edit
Last edited by tomtom1 on Fri Jun 25, 2021 5:46 am, edited 2 times in total.

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addled muppet weed
80658 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass

Post Tue Jun 22, 2021 9:38 am

tomtom1 wrote:
Tue Jun 22, 2021 9:24 am
I didn't smoke anything ...
thats ok :)
ive smoked enough for all of us :wheee:

check in a bit ;)

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addled muppet weed
80658 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass

Post Wed Jun 23, 2021 12:11 pm

i liked it, bit dark and sinister :evil:

the kick could be a bit more in your face, not so much louder, but its a very soft edged kick at present.
have you done much layering with kicks before? where you take two or more kicks, one with a clicky attack transient, one a little more like your current kick and maybe one with a bit of decay.
then using audio envelopes and eq to isolate the bits of each, bring them together and compress it all?

if not, the production techniques forum here, search in there, there are several "layering kick" posts, with many tips from people far more in the know about drums (and things in general probably...) than me :)

KVRAF
2091 posts since 22 Jan, 2011 from near Los Angeles

Post Wed Jun 23, 2021 9:26 pm

tomtom1,
Thank you for the review! Now your song: I wouldn't say the intro (and similar) is ultra-melodic , though it gets more melodic as it goes. Nice synth sounds. I like it. It sets a mood. I think this would be good for a TV show or a movie. Cheers! :)
You can hear my original music at this link: https://www.soundclick.com/artist/defau ... dID=224436

KVRist

Topic Starter

299 posts since 21 May, 2020 from germany

Post Wed Jun 23, 2021 10:14 pm

aaron aardvark wrote:
Wed Jun 23, 2021 9:26 pm
tomtom1,
Thank you for the review! Now your song: I wouldn't say the intro (and similar) is ultra-melodic , though it gets more melodic as it goes. Nice synth sounds. I like it. It sets a mood. I think this would be good for a TV show or a movie. Cheers! :)
Thank you for listening. that shouldn't be very melodic either :hihi: . simply a monstrous thing that moves closer and closer.

KVRist

Topic Starter

299 posts since 21 May, 2020 from germany

Post Wed Jun 23, 2021 10:23 pm

vurt wrote:
Wed Jun 23, 2021 12:11 pm
i liked it, bit dark and sinister :evil:

the kick could be a bit more in your face, not so much louder, but its a very soft edged kick at present.
have you done much layering with kicks before? where you take two or more kicks, one with a clicky attack transient, one a little more like your current kick and maybe one with a bit of decay.
then using audio envelopes and eq to isolate the bits of each, bring them together and compress it all?

if not, the production techniques forum here, search in there, there are several "layering kick" posts, with many tips from people far more in the know about drums (and things in general probably...) than me :)
hello vurt. thank you for your time and listening. yes, the kick could have done with a sub-kick, but somehow I found it difficult to cope with the bass while mixing that comes later (I really like it, but it's a total beast) - and if the kick would be bigger.... but I have to try it next time and layer the kicks. my problem is also that I am somehow so fluctuating with the assessment of my "products". one day: what a shit - the next: it's actually not that bad - and on a good day: hey, that's pretty good. :shrug:

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KVRian
924 posts since 31 May, 2017

Post Thu Jun 24, 2021 12:38 am

That was really cool!
I wasn’t listening on the best speakers but to me it sounds nicely balanced. I really like the tone of the piece and to me nothing felt out of place or awkward. The synth sounds are great, the movement in the drums is really nice and overall it has a nice musical arc.
The way you were talking about your music in my thread had me thinking this was gonna be boring or a bit of a mess or something but not at all. You’re too hard on yourself!

KVRist

Topic Starter

299 posts since 21 May, 2020 from germany

Post Thu Jun 24, 2021 3:24 am

Local Man wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 12:38 am
You’re too hard on yourself!
i know... :scared: i working on it... it's my education (i am an instrumentalist, studied classical music but exclusivly - mainly the real old stuff :) )
Local Man wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 12:38 am
The way you were talking about your music in my thread [...]
okay that was maybe a bit misleading - but i was really a bit jealous :) i have some similiar inspirations like you: aphex twin, chemical brothers, electronic dance music.. but i think your tracks sound almost like an original, how they maybe could make it - i really thought: man, why is this man not famous :D . this track e.g., is not the music i wanted to make (originally) - it is the result of trying to sound like 'em, and then it evolved to this track - and from this point of view, it just didn't turn out that good. you understand what i am trying to say?


thanks for listening btw :tu:

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KVRist
224 posts since 18 May, 2021

Post Thu Jun 24, 2021 6:24 am

Love the detuning on the synths. 1:58 -> wow! Overall the sound is super big and expansive. Really nice wind-down at 3:33. This is my favorite of yours I've heard so far.

I agree with vurt that the kick could have more presence. And I agree with his suggestion of layering. I know this technique has really improved my kicks.
eassae.com
My other moniker: NAUGHT.
"Arts and crafts have been canceled due to poor taste"—Bill Murray, Meatballs

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KVRist
224 posts since 18 May, 2021

Post Thu Jun 24, 2021 6:33 am

BTW: what synth are you using for the lead that comes in at 0:33?
eassae.com
My other moniker: NAUGHT.
"Arts and crafts have been canceled due to poor taste"—Bill Murray, Meatballs

KVRist

Topic Starter

299 posts since 21 May, 2020 from germany

Post Thu Jun 24, 2021 10:06 pm

eassae wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 6:24 am
And I agree with his suggestion of layering. I know this technique has really improved my kicks.
i have to read your explanation in the other thread again. or do you know maybe a good (and easy) manual in the web to do it? but: why are there so many kick samples in the programs when you should combine them? - I somehow don't understand :lol:
eassae wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 6:24 am
1:58 -> wow!
you mean the bass? - that sound i like, too. it's a beast.
eassae wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 6:24 am
This is my favorite of yours I've heard so far.
thanks for your time and listening. glad you liked it.
eassae wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 6:33 am
BTW: what synth are you using for the lead that comes in at 0:33?
all is Reason, again.
the sound you mean is a pad-sound of Thor. basses are the included Monotone synth. the flickering synth to the left is: Malström. the 2 synths sounds heard right in the beginning are: Rostnomo (a free random synth-extension for Reason based on the Nostromo spectral synth) - it has no knobs, just a "randomize all" button :) - everything else is Thor again (except drums ofc)

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KVRist
224 posts since 18 May, 2021

Post Fri Jun 25, 2021 3:39 am

tomtom1 wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 10:06 pm
eassae wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 6:24 am
And I agree with his suggestion of layering. I know this technique has really improved my kicks.
i have to read your explanation in the other thread again. or do you know maybe a good (and easy) manual in the web to do it? but: why are there so many kick samples in the programs when you should combine them? - I somehow don't understand :lol:
eassae wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 6:24 am
1:58 -> wow!
you mean the bass? - that sound i like, too. it's a beast.
eassae wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 6:24 am
This is my favorite of yours I've heard so far.
thanks for your time and listening. glad you liked it.
eassae wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 6:33 am
BTW: what synth are you using for the lead that comes in at 0:33?
all is Reason, again.
the sound you mean is a pad-sound of Thor. basses are the included Monotone synth. the flickering synth to the left is: Malström. the 2 synths sounds heard right in the beginning are: Rostnomo (a free random synth-extension for Reason based on the Nostromo spectral synth) - it has no knobs, just a "randomize all" button :) - everything else is Thor again (except drums ofc)
Yeah, there are a lot of kick samples. Learning to make your own kick with synths is a good skill as well.

I can't remember how detailed my explanation was in the other thread but:

This is how I've been doing kicks. I load up three channels, the first two usually with an instance of PunchBox(You can just use samples, or many synths to make the kick as well). The first instance I make a kick with very little top end and a longer decay than the second, then add a transient plugin to round off the attack and boost the transient slightly, then eq to taste. In the second instance of PunchBox I make a short snappy kick, with a lot of high end frequency, then add a transient plugin to boost the attack, and lessen the transient, then eq to taste. The third channel I will ad a synth, I often use The Legend, Serum, or PhasePlant, but anything that makes good low end bass will do. I make my sub sound and eq off usually at about 44 cycles, the eq the high end off at around 100–200 cycles, so I just have a sub that sits underneath everything. Then I use the faders to make the three sounds sit together well. I can trigger all three at the same time in logic using a monitor track, not sure how you would do it in reason.

Yeah, the bass and just the general arrangement at 1:58, really nice moment.
eassae.com
My other moniker: NAUGHT.
"Arts and crafts have been canceled due to poor taste"—Bill Murray, Meatballs

KVRist

Topic Starter

299 posts since 21 May, 2020 from germany

Post Fri Jun 25, 2021 5:50 am

eassae wrote:
Fri Jun 25, 2021 3:39 am
This is how I've been doing kicks. I load up three channels, the first two usually with an instance of PunchBox(You can just use samples, or many synths to make the kick as well). The first instance I make a kick with very little top end and a longer decay than the second, then add a transient plugin to round off the attack and boost the transient slightly, then eq to taste. In the second instance of PunchBox I make a short snappy kick, with a lot of high end frequency, then add a transient plugin to boost the attack, and lessen the transient, then eq to taste. The third channel I will ad a synth, I often use The Legend, Serum, or PhasePlant, but anything that makes good low end bass will do. I make my sub sound and eq off usually at about 44 cycles, the eq the high end off at around 100–200 cycles, so I just have a sub that sits underneath everything. Then I use the faders to make the three sounds sit together well. I can trigger all three at the same time in logic using a monitor track, not sure how you would do it in reason.
hey thanks a lot :hug: . i will copy this text to my "tips/tricks-document" in which i collect all suggestions and hints, and tips. btw. i tried another kick, see above. if you have time (and if you want) give it a listen and tell me if its for the better or worse.

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KVRist
224 posts since 18 May, 2021

Post Fri Jun 25, 2021 5:54 am

tomtom1 wrote:
Fri Jun 25, 2021 5:50 am
hey thanks a lot :hug: . i will copy this text to my "tips/tricks-document" in which i collect all suggestions and hints, and tips. btw. i tried another kick, see above. if you have time (and if you want) give it a listen and tell me if its for the better or worse.
I think I like it a bit better, but it's hard to tell without a<->b. Could be personal taste as well. Do you bus all your synth together? Do you use any sidechain or ducking compression on the synths that is triggered by the kick?
eassae.com
My other moniker: NAUGHT.
"Arts and crafts have been canceled due to poor taste"—Bill Murray, Meatballs

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KVRist
224 posts since 18 May, 2021

Post Fri Jun 25, 2021 6:06 am

Here's an audio example of kick layering in the following order:

kickBody -> kickSnap -> kickSub -> everything together
eassae.com
My other moniker: NAUGHT.
"Arts and crafts have been canceled due to poor taste"—Bill Murray, Meatballs

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