Validating yourself as a musician in the land of likes and streams

Anything about MUSIC but doesn't fit into the forums above.
Post Reply New Topic
RELATED
PRODUCTS

Post

Only way to validate yourself as a musician is to feel you do not have to validate yourself to anyone as such.
Tribe Of Hǫfuð https://soundcloud.com/user-228690154 "First rule: From one perfect consonance to another perfect consonance one must proceed in contrary or oblique motion." Johann Joseph Fux 1725.

Post

I’m not musician, I’m validated Bitwiger. :hihi:

Post

deltadio wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 5:50 pm Is it controversial that I kind of like the number of streams as a criterion to separate the chaff from the wheat?
Controversial? Nah. But I don't agree with it, for two reasons:

1. Popularity doesn't correlate to musicianship necessarily.

Genre is a huge factor. Pop is... popular. Go figure. Hip-hop, country, metal etc. all have a certain following.

Within any given genre, popularity is also based heavily on marketing, branding, image, opportunities and luck.

Some types of musicians are also simply higher profile than others. There are session musicians in studios, band members whose names are hidden in the credits of the CD liner notes we don't get anymore, symphony musicians, Broadway musicians, producers, backup singers, bar musicians, folk musicians, marching band members, barbershop singers, bell ringers, noise artists, uncounted talented amateurs... The two completely kick-ass drummers in the college jazz ensemble show I saw in 1990, whose names I don't know but who completely mesmerized me with an epic rhythm duel, are far better musicians to me than the kids from BTS who are probably best known for their haircuts and blood type or whatever.

Ever hear of Shoji Kameda? Kris Bergstrom? Kristy Oshiro? Masato Baba? Absolute genius taiko drummers, they are maybe the "stars" of the taiko community at least in North America. Going to make any guesses about whether they have significant streaming numbers?

2. Streaming isn't the only, or necessarily an accurate, measure of popularity anyway. Again, some genres get streamed more than others. Some are more inclined toward albums than singles, some toward live performance or film or other media.

....

I have a bunch of thoughts about "validation" in music and the arts generally, especially where it comes to capitalism's definition of success and validation. But basically: don't sweat it.

Develop a sense of taste, make music that you think is good, practice a lot, and have confidence.

Post

deltadio wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 5:50 pm Given that earning money from streaming is for nearly ALL musicians/(bedroom) producers a race to the bottom not helped by the fact that the relentless supply side of things has vastly oversaturated the (last remains) of the 'market' and keeps doing this with every new musician joining a distributor and cranking out tracks, I was wondering if there are new criteria for validating yourself as a musician.

For most bedroom producers a certain number of streams (YT views included) is likely to be way more important than the actual revenue, but in another discussion on KVR people jokily divulge their recent monthly distro earnings of £0.03p, £0.001 (suggesting a very low number of streams) and I don't think this changes much about how they perceive themselves as musicians.

It seems being a musician is neither dependent on actual revenue or the number of streams (or any other mode of public acknowledgment :? ) and is ultimately an act of self-identification. Is it controversial that I kind of like the number of streams as a criterion to separate the chaff from the wheat? In my defense, I certainly belong to the "chaff" but would consider an x number of streams delightfuly "wheatifying". In other words I would need this extrinsic benchmark before validating myself as a musician and I would use these modern benchmarks to assess your claim to this lofty title... Perhaps you yourself take into consideration the n streams/likes/sales when sizing up your fellow musicians (even on a platform like KVR)?

:dog: PS: I know this subject is a bit more complicated when we focus on performing artists, some of them have virtually zero streams and are not the worse for it. Another benchmark could be the number of actual sales but this seems too limited a measure since almost nobody makes money from that (erm, which could mean it is the best criterion after all?).
Being a musician is a lofty title?

Way way back in the day they were lumped in with prostitutes and actors
Don't feed the gators,y'all
https://m.soundcloud.com/tonedeadj

Post

Been wrestling with this a bit lately. Fortunately I am at a place in my path that I don't require external validation.

I have begged folk to download free tracks. I have had the same tracks generate almost 2 million streams from god knows where. We are at a point in history where supply far out weighs demand. Alot of other distractions.

My latest take is this.....my own version of NFT if you will. I upload a track to gdrive......to hell with distribution. Put up a video of the track on youtube. Tell the few friends and family I have that the track is available to watch or download untill 10 people get it or see it. Then I remove the track. Put it in a folder. Encrypt it with a auto generated key that I don't save or look at. After a year I delete the folder. In the meantime I write, play, record and learn more music......rinse and repeat.
We jumped the fence because it was a fence not be cause the grass was greener.
https://scrubbingmonkeys.bandcamp.com/
https://sites.google.com/view/scrubbing-monkeys

Post

.."And if you ever need self-validation
Then meet me in the alley by the railway station..."

Ahh, those long gone days before Morrissey became an irredeemable fuckwit :cry: .

Do carry on.

Post

Well I don't go thru all that but when I get that creative urge I upload it to soundcloud & check on it once on a blue moon when the urge to check happens,which is less and less now cuz I'm old and got other things to do too.
Don't feed the gators,y'all
https://m.soundcloud.com/tonedeadj

Post

I play music to soothe my heart and soul, I got my first guitar fifty years ago and music has been there through the ups and downs. The gift to me is what music has brought my life, that's the only validation I need...validation from strangers is indeed a foreign concept to me.

I surely understand those wishing to monetize their craft having a need for such validation...as a whole, money is a piss poor motivator for me, time is a great motivator...to those who know me, that really goes without saying so my validation is truly internal and always has. In the case of my music, it's about the moment, I really enjoy playing my guitar, and I really enjoy my peaceful time alone doing so. I consider it a gift, and you know my keeping it to myself? You might too :shrug:

ftr in the three years I have been with Holly, despite her asking...I have never played for her...not my style :shrug:
The highest form of knowledge is empathy, for it requires us to suspend our egos and live in another's world. It requires profound, purpose‐larger‐than‐the‐self kind of understanding.

Post

Scrubbing Monkeys wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 8:30 pm Been wrestling with this a bit lately. Fortunately I am at a place in my path that I don't require external validation.

I have begged folk to download free tracks. I have had the same tracks generate almost 2 million streams from god knows where. We are at a point in history where supply far out weighs demand. Alot of other distractions.

My latest take is this.....my own version of NFT if you will. I upload a track to gdrive......to hell with distribution. Put up a video of the track on youtube. Tell the few friends and family I have that the track is available to watch or download untill 10 people get it or see it. Then I remove the track. Put it in a folder. Encrypt it with a auto generated key that I don't save or look at. After a year I delete the folder. In the meantime I write, play, record and learn more music......rinse and repeat.
Intriguing answer! Could one argue there is some still a qualified need of validation/appreciation* but the threshold is the modest number of 10 after which the track essentially vaporizes making your fanbase one of the most exclusive clubs in this domain. I like the philosophical stance that this approach suggests, almost want it featured in a (mini) documentary (not joking!).
* or is it a case of beneficence, allowing mere mortals an experience of the sublime?

Post

Hink wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 9:10 pm I play music to soothe my heart and soul, I got my first guitar fifty years ago and music has been there through the ups and downs. The gift to me is what music has brought my life, that's the only validation I need...validation from strangers is indeed a foreign concept to me.

I surely understand those wishing to monetize their craft having a need for such validation...as a whole, money is a piss poor motivator for me, time is a great motivator...to those who know me, that really goes without saying so my validation is truly internal and always has. In the case of my music, it's about the moment, I really enjoy playing my guitar, and I really enjoy my peaceful time alone doing so. I consider it a gift, and you know my keeping it to myself? You might too :shrug:

ftr in the three years I have been with Holly, despite her asking...I have never played for her...not my style :shrug:
Powerful words. In this phase of life (or possibly a fair bit earlier than that) you are the musical equivalent of the lone wolf, the lone bard. If you are that autonomous and self-possessed you would think you could share your music (to some extent) without any ramification for your poise whether any feedback is absent, negative or positive. I hope Holly isn’t at times thinking “Oh, I bet you played for that nasty b*tch” referring to one of your more significant exes!

Post

melomood wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 8:24 pm
deltadio wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 5:50 pm [...] Is it controversial that I kind of like the number of streams as a criterion to separate the chaff from the wheat? In my defense, I certainly belong to the "chaff" but would consider an x number of streams delightfuly "wheatifying". In other words I would need this extrinsic benchmark before validating myself as a musician and I would use these modern benchmarks to assess your claim to this lofty title...
[...]
Being a musician is a lofty title?

Way way back in the day they were lumped in with prostitutes and actors
Touché, especially considering I don’t think too much of them in general, but the self-identification with or without being harnessed in external validation still instills a feeling of superiority, extraordinariness, standing out from the uninspired, ungifted crowd.

Post

TribeOfHǫfuð wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 7:53 pm Only way to validate yourself as a musician is to feel you do not have to validate yourself to anyone as such.
True for the lone bards in this comment section and power to them but that still leaves the problem that a musician’s worth is defined by (public) appreciation (present-day or belated) which is a form of validation.

Post

"Only way to validate yourself as a musician is to feel you do not have to validate yourself to anyone as such."

Well, I think it can be enlightening to place oneself in a milieu where people are just not buying it.
my guitar coach ("professor") told me I wasn't cut out to be a classical soloist, I should become one of those studio cats like Lee Ritenour instead.
And by this point I thought, well that overrates me some, doesn't it.

Post

"Is it controversial that I kind of like the number of streams as a criterion to separate the chaff from the wheat?"
Dodgy gesture: one supposes it isn't a controversy. FFS. However it's rather... uneducated to argue a known fallacy like that (and keep doubling down on it). Maybe wonder if here are some people that understand this a bit better.
"Perhaps you yourself take into consideration the n streams/likes/sales when sizing up your fellow musicians"
Nope, not even hardly. My criteria are musical. If one hasn't this to work from, sure, one looks to something extrinsic.

I'll not soon forget seeing over 2 billion views of Adele "Hello" at Youtube. It's not good music and it's not a good production at_all, in my book, and that's my only book, my own assessment. No one has to agree, no one need be persuaded, but popularity as the measure of quality is stupid.
Last edited by jancivil on Tue Aug 03, 2021 10:33 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Post

If you can play an instrument to a reasonable standard (who ever can hear you, they don't cover their ears in dismay), then you're a musician.
If you're earning a living from playing an instrument you're a pro, if not, you're an amateur.
You're still a musician.
You may be a brilliant amateur or a crap professional, you're still a musician.
Being a musician is not dependant upon your day job. Same as any art, whether it be singing, dancing, painting, sculpting, and so on.

Post Reply

Return to “Everything Else (Music related)”