Sq8l

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
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KVRAF
16432 posts since 16 Sep, 2001 from Las Vegas,USA

Post Thu Sep 23, 2021 6:59 am

fmr wrote:
Thu Sep 23, 2021 12:24 am
Teksonik wrote:
Wed Sep 22, 2021 2:54 pm
If those users who still own hardware units will work with Arturia and they're willing to work with users there's no practical reason why it can't happen. Sure Arturia sat down with a hardware unit but did they also think to compare with the SQ8L?
As I said, I don't use the SQ8L, but the SQ80 V is an emulation of the Ensoniq SQ-80, not the SQ8L.
Therefore, Arturia should make all efforts to make SQ80 V sound like the Ensoniq SQ-80. That, I agree. But that's it.
If people want to use the SQ8L they can use the SQ8L, but the SQ80 V doesn't have to be compatible with it, nor behave the same way - that's ridiculous.
What we have been discussing is alleged differences between the SQ80 V and the hardware it is supposed to emulate, not with SQ8L. As I don't own an Ensoniq SQ-80 I can't speak for myself, so I have to trust those that have one, for the moment.
No, what we have been discussing is the fact that some people who still own the hardware units say that the SQ8L is a more faithful emulation.

So if we take their word as fact then the SQ80V should try to "emulate" whatever it is in the 8L that people fine more accurate.

No one is saying the 80V should emulate the horrid 8L workflow or interface just the accuracy of emulating the imported sounds.

The 80V is already an overall better synth but if indeed the 8L is a more accurate emulation then Arturia should find out why and strive for that same accuracy. That's all.

EDIT: I see olepro and sovietpop have already explained it to you. :wink:
None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

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fmr
KVRAF
10542 posts since 16 Mar, 2003 from Porto - Portugal

Post Thu Sep 23, 2021 7:11 am

OK, I already understood that. But did someone already tried to recreate a preset in the SQ80 V parameter per parameter? Before anything, we have to rule out the possibility the problem may reside in the sys-ex importing routines, and not the synth engine. That can only be done by comparing a preset "parameter per parameter".

For example, I read someone saying that after trying to import a few presets, they sounded good but were hard-panned left. This is clearly a weird behavior, that's probably not due to the synth engine, but some misinterpretation of parameters by the sys-ex translator. :shrug:

A recreation like that also would allow us to find which parameters are not behaving as they should (EG: Filter cutoff, keyboard response, envelopes, etc.), if that's what's happening.
Last edited by fmr on Thu Sep 23, 2021 9:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
Fernando (FMR)

KVRian
898 posts since 28 Jul, 2006

Post Thu Sep 23, 2021 7:17 am

Yeah I had some presets that were weirdly hard panned and had incorrect envelopes. Seems the system importer is borked.

If SQ8L is a closer emulation then I do not want arturia to get the emulation better. SQ80V sounds noticeably better.

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fmr
KVRAF
10542 posts since 16 Mar, 2003 from Porto - Portugal

Post Thu Sep 23, 2021 7:22 am

briefcasemanx wrote:
Thu Sep 23, 2021 7:17 am
Yeah I had some presets that were weirdly hard panned and had incorrect envelopes. Seems the system importer is borked.

If SQ8L is a closer emulation then I do not want arturia to get the emulation better. SQ80V sounds noticeably better.
Yet people are making assumptions based on sys-ex imports, apparently.
Last edited by fmr on Thu Sep 23, 2021 7:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
Fernando (FMR)

KVRAF
29985 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Post Thu Sep 23, 2021 7:24 am

Teksonik wrote:
Wed Sep 22, 2021 2:54 pm
You have absolutely no idea what won't happen. You're simply speculating just as I am but there is no technical reason why the SQ80V can't import .syx files to exactly the same standards as the SQ8L.

If those users who still own hardware units will work with Arturia and they're willing to work with users there's no practical reason why it can't happen. Sure Arturia sat down with a hardware unit but did they also think to compare with the SQ8L?

Maybe now they will. :wink:

So let's see what the future holds. Don't be a Debbie Downer.
With all due respect to your optimism, but, it never works like that. ;)

Especially when the plugin is already being sold. How many people will scream "AAARGH!!!" when you change something drastically about the sound then.
Plugins and a DAW. On an operating system. Which runs on a computer.

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KVRAF
16432 posts since 16 Sep, 2001 from Las Vegas,USA

Post Thu Sep 23, 2021 9:06 am

chk071 wrote:
Thu Sep 23, 2021 7:24 am
With all due respect to your optimism, but, it never works like that. ;)
With all due respect to your pessimism what has happened in the past does not necessarily happen in the future. Again you're doing nothing more than speculating. :wink:
chk071 wrote:
Thu Sep 23, 2021 7:24 am
Especially when the plugin is already being sold. How many people will scream "AAARGH!!!" when you change something drastically about the sound then.
But when that "drastic" change is an improvement anyone who screams will only look silly.

The request to Arturia is to improve the import .syx quality so it matches the quality of the SQ8L that is reported by people who still own the hardware. To make it a better emulation. If anyone bought this emulation plugin and would complain about it being a better emulation well then I'll let you take it from there.

Let me say it again let's see what the future holds. Arturia seems committed to improving the SQ80V so we'll see how that pans out.

So what do you think of the SQ80V so far? Are you enjoying your purchase? I am. :tu:
None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

KVRAF
4567 posts since 21 Sep, 2005

Post Thu Sep 23, 2021 12:38 pm

hj
Last edited by codec_spurt on Mon Oct 11, 2021 4:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

KVRer
2 posts since 25 Sep, 2021

Post Sat Sep 25, 2021 1:30 pm

about those sysex files:

I actually tested this before with a patch from a friend and SQ80V behaved almost exactly the same as the ESQ-1 with the same patch.

There is an ENV that triggers the panning slowly from right to left and back to right. When it is released it quickly moves back to the left creating some sort of pseudo reverb effect.

Can you send me some of the sysex files that you have issues with regarding the hard panning so I can try them out both in my ESQ-1 and SQ80V?!

Thanks in advance,

Robin Bausewein

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KVRAF
16432 posts since 16 Sep, 2001 from Las Vegas,USA

Post Sat Sep 25, 2021 2:02 pm

I've just been using some from this link:

https://gearspace.com/board/attachments ... ection.zip

The issue I've found is with the SQ80V DCA 4 Pan knob and modulation. Remove the modulation and the panning issues go away. Something is not being read correctly.
None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

KVRer
2 posts since 25 Sep, 2021

Post Sun Sep 26, 2021 5:06 am

Thanks!

A quick look at the file told me that it's a compilation of ESQ-1 Patches.

I will have a look at it and see how they load in my ESQ-1 and in SQ80V and will get back to report.

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KVRAF
16432 posts since 16 Sep, 2001 from Las Vegas,USA

Post Sun Sep 26, 2021 9:04 am

Those should be sysex dumps from the original hardware so should import fine.

Let us know how accurate you find SQ80V's import compared to your hardware. :tu:
None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

KVRist
147 posts since 26 Jul, 2019

Post Mon Sep 27, 2021 6:57 am

The SQ8L and SQ80 V comparisons got me thinking about why is it that more often than not, it's the smaller devs that offer more accurate emulations. Bigger companies have more resources to use and this sould be an advantage over one man shows. At least this is what I always thought, but now I'm not so sure.
The thing is that bigger companies have different pressures and I guess if your emulation is about 95-98% there it's good enough for most users so working on the last few percent will have diminishing returns. You're probably not gonna sell a lot more units if your emulation is a bit more accurate, but it's probably gonna take a hell of a lot more time to achieve these last few bits of accuracy. So they have to decide on a cut-off point, where the costs of development are just not worth it financially.
Meanwhile smaller devs and especially one man companies can obsess over the details pretty much as long as they want, there are no MBAs telling you to stop. And I bet they feel a certain challenge as well that they want to overcome, e.g. to see whether they can do it or not. I know I would feel that way if I were a dev.
Anyway, while I do like the SQ80 V a lot and the fact that SQ8L might be a bit more accurate doesn't really bother me and in a mix no-one's probably gonna be able to tell the difference anyway, there's this tiny part of me that says, nah, man, you've got to get the most accurate emulation, doesn't matter whether you really need it or not, it's the 0,00000001% that's gonna make the difference, just go for it, dude, trust me. Which is probably why I'm going to get OPS7 at one point, despite the fact that I already have Dexed and DX7 V. :ud:

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fmr
KVRAF
10542 posts since 16 Mar, 2003 from Porto - Portugal

Post Mon Sep 27, 2021 8:51 am

itanever wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 6:57 am
Which is probably why I'm going to get OPS7 at one point, despite the fact that I already have Dexed and DX7 V. :ud:
Do it, and you will come back and praise Arturia for the nice instruments and friendly GUIs they make. Although it may be good, OPS7 lacks a lot of more modern features DX7 V has, and the GUI is way worse than the one in DX7 V.

It may please a handful of purists, but people that are more concerned about the sounds they can produce and program with it will choose DX7 V anytime.

It's a case of form utility vs form purism.
Fernando (FMR)

KVRist
147 posts since 26 Jul, 2019

Post Mon Sep 27, 2021 9:29 am

fmr wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 8:51 am
itanever wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 6:57 am
Which is probably why I'm going to get OPS7 at one point, despite the fact that I already have Dexed and DX7 V. :ud:
Do it, and you will come back and praise Arturia for the nice instruments and friendly GUIs they make. Although it may be good, OPS7 lacks a lot of more modern features DX7 V has, and the GUI is way worse than the one in DX7 V.

It may please a handful of purists, but people that are more concerned about the sounds they can produce and program with it will choose DX7 V anytime.

It's a case of form utility vs form purism.
I already do appreciate Arturia's stuff and they do know how to make good intuitive GUIs, no doubt about it, but as I already implied, I have somewhat of a purist side to me (at least when it comes to sonic qualities). And as far as the user experience goes it can't be worse than old school romplers with deep menus and very few buttons. :D

KVRist
76 posts since 20 Mar, 2016

Post Tue Sep 28, 2021 11:24 pm

Both ESQ1 and SQ80 here, but what's wrong with Arturia's SQ-80V vst to require help of hardware owners?

Image
Teksonik wrote:
Wed Sep 22, 2021 2:54 pm
You have absolutely no idea what won't happen. You're simply speculating just as I am but there is no technical reason why the SQ80V can't import .syx files to exactly the same standards as the SQ8L.

If those users who still own hardware units will work with Arturia and they're willing to work with users there's no practical reason why it can't happen. Sure Arturia sat down with a hardware unit but did they also think to compare with the SQ8L?

Maybe now they will. :wink:

So let's see what the future holds. Don't be a Debbie Downer.

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