The search for a Kurzweil K2000 piano soundalike VST

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
KVRist
189 posts since 18 Jul, 2021

Post Sat Sep 25, 2021 11:45 pm

briefcasemanx wrote:
Sat Sep 25, 2021 11:32 pm
I'm wondering what makes the piano sound interesting compared to plugins nowadays. What would make someone seek it out in modern times?
the korg m1’s piano sounds even less like a real piano but people like using it.

KVRian
1338 posts since 13 May, 2004 from Germany

Post Sun Sep 26, 2021 12:54 am

The UVI keysuite digital collection is wonderful for these kinds of sounds. When I bought it I thought it would be my least used of the key suite collections but to the opposite it is my most used. So many great sounds from old digital romplers that make so much fun to play....

AKJ
KVRAF
1938 posts since 2 Mar, 2004

Post Sun Sep 26, 2021 3:19 am

EvilDragon wrote:
Mon Sep 07, 2015 1:20 am
You are allowed to have it for yourself, but not distribute it.
How do you come to this conclusion? For a sample set not the same copyright protection applies as for music. The time span of protection is much shorter. That is why UVI, for example, is able to offer their Key Suite Digital.

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KVRAF
21906 posts since 7 Jan, 2009 from Croatia

Post Sun Sep 26, 2021 4:23 am

Go ahead, try to distribute some famous Roland samples. :)

KVRian
770 posts since 28 Jul, 2006

Post Sun Sep 26, 2021 4:33 am

gaggle of hermits wrote:
Sat Sep 25, 2021 11:45 pm
briefcasemanx wrote:
Sat Sep 25, 2021 11:32 pm
I'm wondering what makes the piano sound interesting compared to plugins nowadays. What would make someone seek it out in modern times?
the korg m1’s piano sounds even less like a real piano but people like using it.
The Korg m1 piano sounds super fake, it sounds awful and cool. I get that one for sure. If I'm making a 90s dance song I'm putting that in there. The K2000 piano, at least from my recollection, was a weird middle ground/uncanny valley that doesn't seem unique and also doesn't sound super realistic.

Of course everyone has their own opinion. I just want to understand where this piano sounds place is.

KVRist
189 posts since 18 Jul, 2021

Post Sun Sep 26, 2021 5:34 am

what's the obsession with "having a place"? if you don't like using it, don't use it.

the thing about any instrument is you have to play into it. often, you'll make do with something because that's all you've got but you learn how to approach to make it work for you. then when the thing breaks, you have a hard time getting that action work in something else. so people ask: where can i get an equivalent?

there's no need to get in everyone's face demanding to know why.

KVRian
770 posts since 28 Jul, 2006

Post Sun Sep 26, 2021 6:14 am

gaggle of hermits wrote:
Sun Sep 26, 2021 5:34 am
what's the obsession with "having a place"? if you don't like using it, don't use it.

the thing about any instrument is you have to play into it. often, you'll make do with something because that's all you've got but you learn how to approach to make it work for you. then when the thing breaks, you have a hard time getting that action work in something else. so people ask: where can i get an equivalent?

there's no need to get in everyone's face demanding to know why.
Am I obsessed with having a place? Am I using it when I dont like it? Am I getting in everyone's face? Am I demanding?

You're trying to cause a problem where there is none.

KVRist
189 posts since 18 Jul, 2021

Post Sun Sep 26, 2021 6:21 am

well, i've given you two answers and you don't like either of them.

so maybe you're not actually interested in the answer in the first place. :shrug:

KVRian
770 posts since 28 Jul, 2006

Post Sun Sep 26, 2021 6:40 am

gaggle of hermits wrote:
Sun Sep 26, 2021 6:21 am
well, i've given you two answers and you don't like either of them.

so maybe you're not actually interested in the answer in the first place. :shrug:
Your second answer makes more sense to me, minus the snark.

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KVRAF
12640 posts since 22 Nov, 2000 from Southern California

Post Sun Sep 26, 2021 1:52 pm

briefcasemanx wrote:
Sun Sep 26, 2021 4:33 am
The Korg m1 piano sounds super fake, it sounds awful and cool. I get that one for sure. If I'm making a 90s dance song I'm putting that in there. The K2000 piano, at least from my recollection, was a weird middle ground/uncanny valley that doesn't seem unique and also doesn't sound super realistic.

Of course everyone has their own opinion. I just want to understand where this piano sounds place is.
The Pink Floyd example at the beginning of this thread is quite pure sounding, without many overtones. It's kind of Rhodes-ish or sine wave-ish. They obviously had access to real pianos so I guess they chose to use it for those qualities. They also could have recorded the guitar through an amp and instead chose to record it DI. It seems like they were looking for sounds that would stand out.

Robert Miles probably just used the K2000 because that's what he had. It was better than most things available at that time and had great synthesis and sampling abilities. Then again, I've never heard anyone try to remake Children with a more realistic sounding piano, maybe it wouldn't survive being drenched in reverb and delay like that. Also, if it were more realistic sounding, maybe Miles wouldn't have drenched it in the first place and maybe it would never have become the sound of Continental Europe 1996.

KVRAF
2622 posts since 17 Sep, 2016

Post Sun Sep 26, 2021 4:20 pm

Regarding the Division Bell track "Cluster One", I doubt that it was recorded using the K2000. Most likely it was recorded with a real Steinway piano, using a lot of reverb.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cluster_One
The piece was never performed live by the band, although portions of it were included in the sound collage tape played before their 1994 concerts
So sampled pianos for live use, but most likely real piano in the studio, as Cluster One was a "studio only" album track, not performed live. So probably not a sampled piano...

http://sparebricks.fika.org/sbzine28/Wr ... rev156.pdf
From 1987 onwards, Wright has been using the Kurzweil K2000 digital sampler series (see SYNTHESIZERS and SAMPLING & SEQUENCING sections below) for their sampled piano sound -as opposed to real pianos when playing live. Piano samples were used in Momentary Lapse/Another Lapse of Reason/Delicate Sound Of Thunder (1987-89) & Division Bell (1994) tours. Sampled piano was also used during the Division Bell sessions, although the two songs on the album where piano was dominant subsequently had the parts replaced by real piano; “Marooned” was originally recorded with a K2000 and Gilmour’s original demo of“High Hopes” was played on a sampler, but was replaced by real piano played by Jon Carin. Wright performed the piano parts of “Wish You Were Here” on a K2000 for the band’s induction to the Rock n’Roll Hall of Fame. Rick’s current grand piano in his home studio is a Steinway.
Windows10; plugins from AAS, Ableton, AIR, Ample, Arturia, Cakewalk, Cherry, DiscoDSP, Fathom, IKM, Initial, iZotope, KV331, NI, PluginGuru, PreSonus, Surge, TAL, Tone2, Toontrack, Tracktion, u-he, UJAM, UVI, Vital, Waves, XLN ...

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KVRAF
1634 posts since 25 Apr, 2009 from France

Post Sun Sep 26, 2021 4:35 pm

Uncle E wrote:
Sat Sep 25, 2021 11:41 pm
It’s the Robert Miles piano. Shouldn’t that be having a comeback ~20 year cycle?
Sure about this ? I heard it was from an Alesis piano expansion pack...
Of course all the other sounds of the song came from the K2000, but I never found any evidence about the piano and heard a very different version... :shrug:
This post is supposed to be non-agressive. Now please give me a broad smile. :ud:

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KVRAF
2104 posts since 4 Dec, 2011 from Brasília, Brazil

Post Sun Sep 26, 2021 4:47 pm

Jon Carin: So I dragged the Solina, Minimoog, Farfisa etc to the boat and used those quite a bit. And then I did the Wurlitzer & B3 at Keith Grant’s studio, then I played the Fazzioli grand piano at Metropolis Studios on Marooned, High Hopes and Great Day For Freedom. So it had a slightly more natural palette.
https://www.reddit.com/r/pinkfloyd/comm ... ngs_about/

Maybe Cluster One was still the Kurzweil? Will listen the song later.

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KVRAF
2104 posts since 4 Dec, 2011 from Brasília, Brazil

Post Sun Sep 26, 2021 4:52 pm

BTW, the Metropolis Studios Fazioli was sampled by Waves (Grand Rhapsody Piano) and Waves Factory. It's the piano used by Freddie Mercury too.

KVRAF
2622 posts since 17 Sep, 2016

Post Sun Sep 26, 2021 5:00 pm

Cluster One sounds like an actual piano to my ears, that was run through a reverb...
Windows10; plugins from AAS, Ableton, AIR, Ample, Arturia, Cakewalk, Cherry, DiscoDSP, Fathom, IKM, Initial, iZotope, KV331, NI, PluginGuru, PreSonus, Surge, TAL, Tone2, Toontrack, Tracktion, u-he, UJAM, UVI, Vital, Waves, XLN ...

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