Instruments with sidechain as modulation source?

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
KVRist
110 posts since 28 Oct, 2002

Post Tue Sep 28, 2021 1:25 am

What instruments allow for a sidechain signal as modulation source for any parameter of the synth?

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KVRian
881 posts since 14 Jul, 2018

Post Tue Sep 28, 2021 6:16 am

kind of:

PA Knifonium
Korg MS20

"kind of" because i have logic which is in re sidechain maybe different/special
for example: ms20 works via "AU MIDI-controlled effects"
(knif has the sidechain by itself)

and both knif and ms20 only modulate those parameters that are patchable/switchable
so probably not "any"

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KVRian
790 posts since 11 Aug, 2018 from UE

Post Tue Sep 28, 2021 7:20 am

Tranzistow.
Best
YY

KVRist

Topic Starter

110 posts since 28 Oct, 2002

Post Wed Sep 29, 2021 3:05 am

Amazing that (almost) no synth supports this. It would be so nice if, e.g., the filter of a pad could be automatically opened or closed depending on what's going on in another track. I think the application scenarios are endless and go way beyond the usual volume ducking in sidechain compression.

KVRAF
4970 posts since 17 Dec, 2009

Post Wed Sep 29, 2021 3:26 am

Logic’s own Sculpture has that so you can use any audio as string exciter and its pretty cool.

Bazille has audio rate modulation… time to bug urs again.

But yeah even envelope followers would be cool.
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KVRist
254 posts since 2 Feb, 2005 from UK

Post Wed Sep 29, 2021 3:31 am

Its non trivial as the VST3 spec. basically(and Im simplifying here) says you are either a VSTi plug-in - so you can have midi in and generated audio out and thats it, or you are VST3 effect and you take MIDI and audio in and push audio out.

Actually you can usually make an effect generate audio - but its (usually) pretty trivial - however the opposite - making a synth thats NOT a VSTi is -well- problematic in all sorts of ways...
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KVRian
914 posts since 8 Oct, 2019

Post Wed Sep 29, 2021 4:41 am

With Bitwig you can basically do that with any value of any synth or fx.
Last edited by gondii on Wed Sep 29, 2021 11:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

KVRAF
2067 posts since 15 Apr, 2004 from Capital City, UK

Post Wed Sep 29, 2021 4:45 am

A lot of Logic stock synths offer side-chain modulation, mostly envelope following amplitude though.
Alchemy, ES1, ES2, Sampler, Sculpture, Ultrabeat, the Vocoder synth (without it it couldn't do its thing) and the Mellotron thing, but I can't see a way to utilise it as a modulation source, so it seems a bit redundant.

Some others I have which offer side-chain modulation:
- FB 3100, ModulAir
- Physical Audio's Derailer (at least, the expired beta I have has a side-chain, which makes me think it _might_ be usable as a resonator for external audio. Someone with the official release might be able to confirm)
- the powerful modular things including Reaktor and Plogue Bidule
- Rob Papens Albino does so I expect his newer synths do as well
- TAL Sampler and _possibly_ TAL modular thing

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KVRian
532 posts since 3 Jan, 2020

Post Wed Sep 29, 2021 5:56 am

+1 for Bitwig from me. It's amazing for that kind of stuff.

Also, if you load MPowerSynth or MSoundFactory inside MXXX you can do it. But that's a bit of a convoluted setup.

KVRist

Topic Starter

110 posts since 28 Oct, 2002

Post Wed Sep 29, 2021 9:30 am

Lind0n wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 3:31 am
Its non trivial as the VST3 spec. basically(and Im simplifying here) says you are either a VSTi plug-in - so you can have midi in and generated audio out and thats it, or you are VST3 effect and you take MIDI and audio in and push audio out.

Actually you can usually make an effect generate audio - but its (usually) pretty trivial - however the opposite - making a synth thats NOT a VSTi is -well- problematic in all sorts of ways...
Is this really true? This reads differently - it even mentions explicitly the use of a sidechain signal in a vst3 instrument for modulation purposes.

KVRist

Topic Starter

110 posts since 28 Oct, 2002

Post Wed Sep 29, 2021 9:33 am

Thanks for the bitwig pointer. I have to have a look at this.

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KVRian
1391 posts since 11 Apr, 2008

Post Wed Sep 29, 2021 11:18 pm

Krotos Concept 2 do this
Beware! The software discussed in this topic has unacceptable aliasing at -386dBTP but it can be fixed by changing the sample rate to 12Bit

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KVRist
254 posts since 2 Feb, 2005 from UK

Post Thu Sep 30, 2021 12:35 am

Fette Töle wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 9:30 am
Lind0n wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 3:31 am
Its non trivial as the VST3 spec. basically(and Im simplifying here) says you are either a VSTi plug-in - so you can have midi in and generated audio out and thats it, or you are VST3 effect and you take MIDI and audio in and push audio out.

Actually you can usually make an effect generate audio - but its (usually) pretty trivial - however the opposite - making a synth thats NOT a VSTi is -well- problematic in all sorts of ways...
Is this really true? This reads differently - it even mentions explicitly the use of a sidechain signal in a vst3 instrument for modulation purposes.
Perhaps you are right - however none of the developers I know can get this to work properly - but thats the VST3 spec. for you.

example (Cubase related):
https://forum.juce.com/t/issues-with-si ... e/38134/20
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KVRAF
6359 posts since 6 Jan, 2017 from Outer Space

Post Thu Sep 30, 2021 2:41 am

Cherry Audio CA2600 and VM seem to have it… (And as I load VST3 per default, it doesn‘t seem to be a problem…)

KVRAF
4970 posts since 17 Dec, 2009

Post Thu Sep 30, 2021 11:58 pm

need to try in Logic
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