Too costly to upgrade

Official support for: bitwig.com
KVRian
888 posts since 29 Oct, 2015 from Jupiter 8

Post Sat Oct 02, 2021 12:27 am

plus a lot more.
FL Studio has lifetime free updates, and Cakewalk is now completely free.
I am in a fortunate position that i could afford Bitwig and every single paid update, but i personally think that Bitwig's upgrade path is very expensive compared to most other DAWs except maybe what Magix is asking for their Sound Forge updates.

A $100.000 car is still very expensive for many, no matter if you drive it for 20+ years as you could do this too with a $20.000 car.

So i can perfectly understand if this is a big concern for people on tighter budgets.
It even is for me since i also think the paid updates are too frequent and too expensive, despite not having the problem getting into financial trouble if i actually did get into the Bitwig ecosystem
There's no Logic to Windows

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KVRAF
3857 posts since 15 Aug, 2003 from seattle

Post Sat Oct 02, 2021 12:41 am

FapFilter wrote:
Sat Oct 02, 2021 12:27 am
plus a lot more.
FL Studio has lifetime free updates, and Cakewalk is now completely free.
I am in a fortunate position that i could afford Bitwig and every single paid update, but i personally think that Bitwig's upgrade path is very expensive compared to most other DAWs except maybe what Magix is asking for their Sound Forge updates.

A $100.000 car is still very expensive for many, no matter if you drive it for 20+ years as you could do this too with a $20.000 car.

So i can perfectly understand if this is a big concern for people on tighter budgets.
It even is for me since i also think the paid updates are too frequent and too expensive, despite not having the problem getting into financial trouble if i actually did get into the Bitwig ecosystem
Yeah it's not cheap. But, it's not prohibitively expensive. I'm totally guilty of flipping out about the cost of things, but in the bigger picture $169 is not crazy expensive. It just depends on how you use it, if you only use Bitwig or it to be current then the upgrade price is pretty high. I remember flipping out that Live upgrades became $229. My first upgrade with them was $79.

Nothing is crazy expensive about it though, Reason+ subscription comes to $228 a year, Pro Tools is $299 a year, Studio One is $179.40 a year.

The "other" tier as has been mentioned is the cheaper DAWs, Logic and Reaper, and the FL Studio unique setup, or Cakewalks situation. Reaper is more or less donation-ware.

Those are all possibilities but Bitwigs pricing isn't unique when you look at the other DAWs. Plus you're supporting a small dedicated company that isn't tied to a big corporation like Logic, or isn't saved from destruction by a company that could abandon it like Cakewalk, or any of the other owned by big company DAWs really, or some developers pet project with odd quirks like Reaper etc. etc.

KVRian
888 posts since 29 Oct, 2015 from Jupiter 8

Post Sat Oct 02, 2021 12:54 am

Of course it isn't prohibitively expensive (depending on each situation, because there are of course more than enough people in the world that couldn't even afford a system that could run something like a free DAW at all), but at least this price model is reason enough for me to not even consider trying it as it wouldn't be anything more than a “toy“ for me anyway as my DAW already does what i want from it and then some.
Not saying that “toys“ have to be something “unprofessional / very limited“, it would just give me very little what i don't already have for a price that i consider quite high for what you could get elsewhere
Last edited by FapFilter on Sat Oct 02, 2021 1:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
There's no Logic to Windows

KVRAF
8236 posts since 2 Dec, 2004 from North Wales

Post Sat Oct 02, 2021 1:01 am

The upgrade price is very cheap if you just upgrade say every 3 years! I tend to do this with Komplete and V Collection etc in 'sales' at 50% off and the value is great...Bitwig is no different.

FOMO drives people to upgrade too soo and too often!
PC + S49 MK2, Studio One, BWS, Live (+PUSH2), FL Studio, Renoise, Reason, X32 Desk, Hardware Synths (Summit, Hydrasynth, DM12, P8), A4 + RYTM, MPC Live, Poly Tracker, Eurorack, TD27 V Drums, Guitars, Basses, Amps and Pedals

KVRian
888 posts since 29 Oct, 2015 from Jupiter 8

Post Sat Oct 02, 2021 1:04 am

I only upgrade Sound Forge like in 10+ years. I still consider it's upgrade prices high, despite not getting into financial trouble.
And my last DAW served me for 11 years without updates, even though the upgrades would have been $99 i think.
There's no Logic to Windows

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KVRAF
3857 posts since 15 Aug, 2003 from seattle

Post Sat Oct 02, 2021 1:07 am

FapFilter wrote:
Sat Oct 02, 2021 12:54 am
Of course it isn't prohibitively expensive (depending on each situation, because there are of course more than enough people in the world that couldn't even afford a system that could run something like a DAW at all), but at least this price model is enough for me to even consider trying it as it wouldn't be anything more than a “toy“ for me anyway as my DAW already does what i want from it and then some.
Not saying that “toys“ have to be something “unprofessional / very limited“, it would just give me very little what i don't already have for a price that i consider quite high for what you could get elsewhere
Looks like you're a Logic user from your sig. You would get multiple MIDI input ports instead of only channels, Tempo changes in the session clips window, vastly better MPE support, true MIDI out from VSTi's instead of the workaround that Logic does with AU MIDI "plug ins", a much more advanced modulation system, and a Reaktor like modular synthesis playground with the Grid.

Not saying Logic doesn't have advantages over Bitwig, but if we're being fair here, Every DAW has weak and strong points and those are some of the areas where Bitwig is much, much stronger than Logic.

KVRian
888 posts since 29 Oct, 2015 from Jupiter 8

Post Sat Oct 02, 2021 1:08 am

I'm using Reaper on Windows, i just tried to be funny
There's no Logic to Windows

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KVRAF
2131 posts since 28 Feb, 2015

Post Sat Oct 02, 2021 1:10 am

SLiC wrote:
Sat Oct 02, 2021 1:01 am
FOMO drives people to upgrade too soo and too often!
This is so true when it comes to my consumer habits. I also don't want to wait for new interesting features 6+ months before the first sale, so I often buy instantly :dog: :D
i9-10900K | 128GB DDR4 | RTX 3090 | Arturia AudioFuse/KeyLab mkII/SparkLE | PreSonus ATOM/ATOM SQ | Studio One | Reason | Bitwig Studio | Reaper | Renoise | FL Studio | ~900 VSTs | 300+ REs

KVRAF
8236 posts since 2 Dec, 2004 from North Wales

Post Sat Oct 02, 2021 2:21 am

Yeh, its not just software...but like all products eventually products become so good (for example the iPhone) the the new updates become less desirable/interesting and even hardened gadget freaks and updaters like me start skipping updates until there is some real innovation.

Bitwig is the same, it works pretty well now, does most of what I need it to do (and I have other software that does what it doesn't do) ...it will get harder and harder to keep people like me updating regally.

If 'Midi Grid' comes I may eventually go for it, but I cant think of much else that would drive me to upgrade after my plan expires. Either way, next time I will wait until after a release I want is launched and properly before I upgrade so that I can demo it, I feel like most of my 'annual plan' time has been spent free beta testing for Bitwig!
PC + S49 MK2, Studio One, BWS, Live (+PUSH2), FL Studio, Renoise, Reason, X32 Desk, Hardware Synths (Summit, Hydrasynth, DM12, P8), A4 + RYTM, MPC Live, Poly Tracker, Eurorack, TD27 V Drums, Guitars, Basses, Amps and Pedals

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KVRAF
2131 posts since 28 Feb, 2015

Post Sat Oct 02, 2021 2:40 am

I actually took a huge (for me) leap a few years ago when starting to replacing my phone (I'm a Samsung guy though) "only" every second year :D
i9-10900K | 128GB DDR4 | RTX 3090 | Arturia AudioFuse/KeyLab mkII/SparkLE | PreSonus ATOM/ATOM SQ | Studio One | Reason | Bitwig Studio | Reaper | Renoise | FL Studio | ~900 VSTs | 300+ REs

KVRian
888 posts since 29 Oct, 2015 from Jupiter 8

Post Sat Oct 02, 2021 2:53 am

I'm constantly getting laughed at with my “current“ Galaxy S1, which is 12 years old now i believe.
I can still phone with it perfectly fine and to my surprise even the battery is still good.
If i had to use it for more than just phone calls, tethering and streaming audio to my speakers at work i'd probably need a newer one though
There's no Logic to Windows

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KVRAF
2131 posts since 28 Feb, 2015

Post Sat Oct 02, 2021 3:17 am

FapFilter wrote:
Sat Oct 02, 2021 2:53 am
I'm constantly getting laughed at with my “current“ Galaxy S1, which is 12 years old now i believe.
I can still phone with it perfectly fine and to my surprise even the battery is still good.
If i had to use it for more than just phone calls, tethering and streaming audio to my speakers at work i'd probably need a newer one though
I did never own the Galaxy S1, but I had the S2, and then all the models until S8 i think, from where started getting a new phone every second year instead. I respect you for owning and S1, and I would probably respect you even more if you had a phone with physical buttons :D
i9-10900K | 128GB DDR4 | RTX 3090 | Arturia AudioFuse/KeyLab mkII/SparkLE | PreSonus ATOM/ATOM SQ | Studio One | Reason | Bitwig Studio | Reaper | Renoise | FL Studio | ~900 VSTs | 300+ REs

KVRian
888 posts since 29 Oct, 2015 from Jupiter 8

Post Sat Oct 02, 2021 3:36 am

Not sure if the respect is deserved as there probably also is a good amount of stupidity and stubbornness involved aswell ;)

Not sure if i still have my buttoned mobile somewhere, but i definitely haven't used it since i went modern with my S1 :party:

I can say for sure though that i don't have any rotary dial phone anymore :hihi:
There's no Logic to Windows

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KVRAF
2131 posts since 28 Feb, 2015

Post Sat Oct 02, 2021 4:30 am

FapFilter wrote:
Sat Oct 02, 2021 3:36 am
I can say for sure though that i don't have any rotary dial phone anymore :hihi:
Boooooh!! :lol:
i9-10900K | 128GB DDR4 | RTX 3090 | Arturia AudioFuse/KeyLab mkII/SparkLE | PreSonus ATOM/ATOM SQ | Studio One | Reason | Bitwig Studio | Reaper | Renoise | FL Studio | ~900 VSTs | 300+ REs

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KVRAF
20416 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Post Sat Oct 02, 2021 6:15 am

machinesworking wrote:
Sat Oct 02, 2021 12:41 am
Yeah it's not cheap. But, it's not prohibitively expensive. I'm totally guilty of flipping out about the cost of things, but in the bigger picture $169 is not crazy expensive.
Anyone can get the upgrade for $129... $169 is like the MSRP and $129 the street price :hihi:

Bitwig is cheap. Live is even cheaper. $10 a month is nothing. Pretty much everyone who complains about price wastes more money every month than that on unnecessary stuff. Anyone who is serious about their art will focus on what's important to them and in that case $10 is nothing.

There is really nothing to talk about here, no issue, except people love to complain about money. It's like the national pastime.

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