Waldorf M Wavetable Synthesizer

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chk071
KVRAF
30020 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Post Fri Oct 08, 2021 2:32 am

zerocrossing wrote:
Thu Oct 07, 2021 2:54 pm
Vortifex wrote:
Tue Oct 05, 2021 2:57 am
Listened to the demos but didn't really hear anything that screams "this cost nearly two grand". Maybe I'm spoiled by plugins.
What plugin sounds like this synth? (Except for ROMplers like UVI Waverunner and Syntronik.)
I guess you're best off with Waldorf's plugins. I'd recommend Largo. It has all of the Microwave's wavetables, alongside the ones from other of Waldorf's synths (Microwave 2/XT, Q, PPG etc.). It has a "Brilliance" control for the oscillators, which changes the wavetable's resolution, so you get some interesting extra harmonics, like in their older synths.

Mind that it is not yet M1 compatible (I think), so, if you have a newer Mac, you're out of luck.
Plugins and a DAW. On an operating system. Which runs on a computer.

chk071
KVRAF
30020 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Post Fri Oct 08, 2021 2:35 am

EvilDragon wrote:
Tue Oct 05, 2021 3:53 am
A 10 years old YT video which has super low bitrate MP3 that was then again transcoded to Opus... Not really a valid comparison with never videos. :)

But sure, the filter is different - it's closer to the filter used in actual PPG Wave 2.3 (which used SSM 2040). But this doesn't really change the amount of dirt created by the oscillators as much as you think.
chk071 wrote:
Tue Oct 05, 2021 3:44 am
I also sounds much more lo-fi (i.e. as if someone applied a high cut)
That's the old 96kbps MP3 encoding! Gets a steep rolloff at 16 kHz that's NOT there on the synth.

There's plenty of top end on a MWI, enough to be icepicky if you open the filter all the way up.
I think you ordered a M, right? If you have the time, it'd be interesting to hear some comparisons. I still stand by my point. What you say about MP3 encoding doesn't make much sense either, as it applies to all synths, not just the old ones. ;) And, I don't think Youtube audio really cuts at 16 kHz in general either. They have different quality levels, for both video and audio.

Even Komplexer sounds much less bright than Largo and Blofeld, and, those synths are merely 2 or 3 years apart from each other.

Factually, the M should sound more hi-fi anyway. DAC's, 1989 tech vs. 2021 tech, DSP's, 1989 tech vs. 2021 tech, software, 1989 tech vs. 2021 tech, hardware, 1989 vs. 2021 tech... not sure why we're even discussing this.
Last edited by chk071 on Fri Oct 08, 2021 3:53 am, edited 2 times in total.
Plugins and a DAW. On an operating system. Which runs on a computer.

ghettosynth
KVRAF
13133 posts since 13 Oct, 2009

Post Fri Oct 08, 2021 3:48 am

pdxindy wrote:
Thu Oct 07, 2021 5:30 pm
zerocrossing wrote:
Thu Oct 07, 2021 3:00 pm
ghettosynth wrote:
Mon Oct 04, 2021 3:38 pm
pdxindy wrote:
Thu Sep 23, 2021 7:48 am
Here is an hour+ someone posted exploring the sound of the M (no talking). No FX except a couple short moments I heard some reverb.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJQmvbxdtbk
God that sounds great. I'd be that much poorer though and never get any work done.
I’m definitely going to try and get one this Christmas. If not then, next spring.
Had mine now for a couple hours... so far, the M meets my high expectations after listening to the sound demos except the sound is more dynamic and alive in person than came across in the demos. In moments it's startling and puts a smile on the face. :tu:
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kobal
KVRist
338 posts since 5 Jul, 2004

Post Fri Oct 08, 2021 4:08 am

to me quantum can have similar sound to the M, i mean quantum dosen t sound like a all digital synth, listen their totaly digital synth and imo we can hear that the M and quantum both share some sound quality the others don t, specially in the low mids , their hybrid synths are more "organic" there to me

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pdxindy
KVRAF
20513 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Post Fri Oct 08, 2021 5:03 pm

Vortifex wrote:
Fri Oct 08, 2021 2:18 am
To my ears Massive X sounds just as good as this if not better. But these days I guess hardware is more about the experience of using it rather than any sonic advantage to be gained. I'm only saying this because it's a digital synth, I still think there's a little bit of magic left in analogue although that's probably placebo as well at this point.
The Waldorf M is a digital analog hybrid. It has analog filters and stereo analog VCA's.

I now have the M in hand. I also have Massive X. This of course is a subjective opinion... the Waldorf M sounds significantly more interesting, dynamic and nuanced than Massive X. For me, the M is something completely different.

For comparison, first, turn off the FX on Massive X. Then turn off the noise samples if a preset uses them. MX can sometimes sound a bit metallic, a bit brittle. Without the FX and Samples to mask it, the Osc's can also sound a bit plain.

I've explored the M for maybe 8 hours now and I haven't missed FX yet. I have the Beebo sitting right next to the M waiting for its turn with FX but the M sounds so good as is. Even with the filter wide open and no FX, the Osc's are amazing sounding... full of effortless complexity and a startling presence. Other than a bit of wavetable movement and some filter envelope, I haven't even start using modulation! Waldorf has done something special with this synth.

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Vectorman
KVRian
1337 posts since 6 May, 2005 from Michigan, USA

Post Fri Oct 08, 2021 7:20 pm

pdxindy wrote:
Fri Oct 08, 2021 5:03 pm
Even with the filter wide open and no FX, the Osc's are amazing sounding... full of effortless complexity and a startling presence. Other than a bit of wavetable movement and some filter envelope, I haven't even start using modulation! Waldorf has done something special with this synth.
Some of my favorite PPG sounds hardly depend on the filter at all. Like that ethereal, electric piano-esque sound Patrick O'Hearn used quite a bit that's just based on wavetable movement that sort of "simulates" a subtly closing filter as it decays.
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EvilDragon
KVRAF
21959 posts since 7 Jan, 2009 from Croatia

Post Sat Oct 09, 2021 1:04 am

chk071 wrote:
Fri Oct 08, 2021 2:35 am
What you say about MP3 encoding doesn't make much sense either, as it applies to all synths, not just the old ones. ;) And, I don't think Youtube audio really cuts at 16 kHz in general either. They have different quality levels, for both video and audio.
I'm saying for 10 years old videos it definitely did cut the top end, since that's what MP3 does (it's in the encoder itself) and they used MP3 10 years ago on Youtube...
chk071 wrote:
Fri Oct 08, 2021 2:35 am
Factually, the M should sound more hi-fi anyway. DAC's, 1989 tech vs. 2021 tech, DSP's, 1989 tech vs. 2021 tech, software, 1989 tech vs. 2021 tech, hardware, 1989 vs. 2021 tech... not sure why we're even discussing this.
Perhaps in theory. But they have set up a specific goal for themselves to make it sound as close as possible to MWI. Regardless of new tech, getting there is definitely possible, so no, it is not a given that things MUST sound more hi-fi just because of 2021 tech. They emulated the ASIC from MWI quite completely, so oscillator generation is for all intents and purposes the same between the two.

Largo, by comparison, sounds much cleaner no matter what you do, simply because the way wavetables are read out is completely different...

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vurt
addled muppet weed
86419 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass

Post Sat Oct 09, 2021 1:26 am

yeah ten years ago pootube wasn't what it is today regarding audio or visual quality, it's only fairly recently it went all hi def and quality audio.
remember we all had shite upload speeds and stuff then :lol:

they've made it so easy and it's so quick now, any idiot can have a channel...

https://youtube.com/channel/UClzuKPmRH7iXoLW7pGHxxDw

:lol: :oops:

Vortifex
KVRAF
2461 posts since 1 Sep, 2016

Post Sat Oct 09, 2021 2:50 pm

pdxindy wrote:
Fri Oct 08, 2021 5:03 pm
I've explored the M for maybe 8 hours now and I haven't missed FX yet. I have the Beebo sitting right next to the M waiting for its turn with FX but the M sounds so good as is. Even with the filter wide open and no FX, the Osc's are amazing sounding... full of effortless complexity and a startling presence. Other than a bit of wavetable movement and some filter envelope, I haven't even start using modulation! Waldorf has done something special with this synth.
Nice! What do you (or anyone else) think about the form factor? It's not enormous but it's square and I can imagine it might be a little awkward to fit on a desk with MIDI controller?

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pdxindy
KVRAF
20513 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Post Sat Oct 09, 2021 3:57 pm

Vortifex wrote:
Sat Oct 09, 2021 2:50 pm
pdxindy wrote:
Fri Oct 08, 2021 5:03 pm
I've explored the M for maybe 8 hours now and I haven't missed FX yet. I have the Beebo sitting right next to the M waiting for its turn with FX but the M sounds so good as is. Even with the filter wide open and no FX, the Osc's are amazing sounding... full of effortless complexity and a startling presence. Other than a bit of wavetable movement and some filter envelope, I haven't even start using modulation! Waldorf has done something special with this synth.
Nice! What do you (or anyone else) think about the form factor? It's not enormous but it's square and I can imagine it might be a little awkward to fit on a desk with MIDI controller?
It is squarish... and a bit bigger than my imaginary mental image prior to receiving it which I am happy about. I find a lot of gear too small these days. Including the space for the cables in back, it is about 14" deep. It works fine in my space. The screen starts 7 inches from the front. The screen is bright and easy to view from an angle. The UI is so far a pleasure to work with. I like the size of the knobs and the space between them.

If you have a midi controller in front of it, you would want to tip up the M, otherwise the edit knobs will block the bottom of the screen where all the modulation parameters are.

kobal
KVRist
338 posts since 5 Jul, 2004

Post Sun Oct 10, 2021 2:53 pm

anyone agree than dmitry sches synths are the closest to this? i often used diversion for that kind of waldorf sound, i find these can share something similar

chk071
KVRAF
30020 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Post Sun Oct 10, 2021 2:56 pm

kobal wrote:
Sun Oct 10, 2021 2:53 pm
anyone agree than dmitry sches synths are the closest to this?
I think ArcSyn and AIR Hybrid sound sort of Waldorf-ish. Not the same though. The Waldorf sound is quite special.

Diversion is pretty far off this sound for me.
Plugins and a DAW. On an operating system. Which runs on a computer.

kobal
KVRist
338 posts since 5 Jul, 2004

Post Sun Oct 10, 2021 3:00 pm

chk071 wrote:
Sun Oct 10, 2021 2:56 pm
kobal wrote:
Sun Oct 10, 2021 2:53 pm
anyone agree than dmitry sches synths are the closest to this?
I think ArcSyn and AIR Hybrid sound sort of Waldorf-ish. Not the same though. The Waldorf sound is quite special.

Diversion is pretty far off this sound for me.
long time i haven t used ArcSyn i will check thnaks, i have largo it has waldorf sound also but from what i remember diversion was closer to that sound but maybe i m wrong

yeah i check on you tube and to me diversion can sound better than largo , i mean it s digita sounding but less arsh and lofi so more similar to that waldorf sound to me .
Last edited by kobal on Sun Oct 10, 2021 3:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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EvilDragon
KVRAF
21959 posts since 7 Jan, 2009 from Croatia

Post Sun Oct 10, 2021 3:02 pm

Not even close.

kobal
KVRist
338 posts since 5 Jul, 2004

Post Sun Oct 10, 2021 3:06 pm

EvilDragon wrote:
Sun Oct 10, 2021 3:02 pm
Not even close.
can you recomend some plugin for that type of sound caractere ? i hope largo is not the closest

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