Moog One - weirdest tuning issues I heard of also the solution they have for it?

Anything about hardware musical instruments.
lfm
KVRAF
5752 posts since 22 Jan, 2005 from Sweden

Post Thu Sep 24, 2020 7:05 pm

Tim Shoebridge had his second hand Moog One 6 months and did this demo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TRZQqR-xMk

00:01:09 Introduction
00:06:24 LFOs
00:11:50 VCOs
00:14:58 VCFs
00:21:56 Modulation
00:24:39 VARS
00:30:28 Transforms
00:36:23 Quirks & Limitations
00:46:56 Tuning Issues
00:56:11 Multi Synth Engine Patch
01:03:59 Conclusions

The way that "solution" firmware update Moog had on this sounded dreadful as he gave example. He actually turned that off to not use "solution".

Maybe other synths do it like this, making a table over voltages to correct where tuning fails otherwise - one for each voice.

I ran a total calibration of my DeepMind 6 one time just to test, had no issues, and after 15 minutes it was still working doing the full test. Not sure how long it took, just left it. It went through all envelopes for every voice and whatnot to sound as equal on each voice as possible. But had zero tuning issues with it, just curious what happends doing the test.

But how it affected tone on Moog One is what make me wonder how Moog are up to the game or not - braindrain in company?

Seems like major fail to me. We talk serious money for these synths, I mean, $10,000 or so. That all would be meticulously tested and never released anything but stellar.

Looked on another bunch of Moog One demos, but they did not even mention tuning stuff. Well, SonicLab had an early unit that seriously failed in low end tuning, but got a replacement.

If just fail on some individuals I would ask for replacement, not a solution that Shoebridge mentioned. Shoebridge is a programmer himself, so know how things work - I bought several oscillators for Prologue of his etc.

User avatar
KVRist
66 posts since 29 Oct, 2018

Post Tue Sep 29, 2020 5:06 pm

The Moog One currently has two tuning features. A user calibration and the oscillator compensation. The calibration brought my One into tune very well. The oscillator compensation is the feature that Tim took issue with.

Most of the One owners I know (as well as myself) have done the user calibration and then turned the oscillator compensation off. It gives you an in-tune polysynth that can still do the slight drifts and organic imperfections we love, but without the oscillator compensation that has that cheesy autotune effect. Honestly, not sure why they'd release the compensation feature-and I don't like it any better than Tim does...nor does any other owner that I know personally.

Things in the firmware have been in flux. The tuning calibration *and* compensation are recent features. Many people commenting have confused or amalgamated the two.

The DeepMind calibration you speak of is not unlike what the calibration on the Moog One does, though the One's obviously takes longer and is more complex. My tuning is just fine now and I don't have to use the compensation feature at all. I've had my Moog One since October 2018, fwiw. The firmware updates (as was promised) have made it better and better.

Rereading your post it seems that this was just a curiosity and you weren't looking to buy one? Either way, I hope this helps explain things. Cheers!

lfm
KVRAF

Topic Starter

5752 posts since 22 Jan, 2005 from Sweden

Post Tue Sep 29, 2020 9:57 pm

Thanks for extensive input.
Just contemplated getting one, 8 voice version - when i saw an ad for it second hand locally.
Whatever makes exploring new sound territory could be worth the money.
But seemingly fail could be part of it - like Tim mentioned that some has more severe issues and maybe must use oscillator compensation. You don't want to rely on luck - at this price range.

I could get both Prophet 6, OB-6 and new PolyBrute for same money - 6 voice stuff which is enough I think.

I kind of relate to what Tim said about why Moog did not make a cut down version, stripped of some stuff.

I mean that is why BMW and Merc have their top models that very few people can afford, building the brand. Then on lower shelf the more affordable model series, still a BMW or Merc.

But Moog One seems impressive in many ways, just creating it is bold. I kind of like that. Employee owned company, that is cool too. :)

KVRian
536 posts since 9 May, 2005

Post Tue Oct 12, 2021 10:35 pm

Synthient Sound wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 5:06 pm
The Moog One currently has two tuning features. A user calibration and the oscillator compensation. The calibration brought my One into tune very well. The oscillator compensation is the feature that Tim took issue with.

Most of the One owners I know (as well as myself) have done the user calibration and then turned the oscillator compensation off. It gives you an in-tune polysynth that can still do the slight drifts and organic imperfections we love, but without the oscillator compensation that has that cheesy autotune effect. Honestly, not sure why they'd release the compensation feature-and I don't like it any better than Tim does...nor does any other owner that I know personally.

Things in the firmware have been in flux. The tuning calibration *and* compensation are recent features. Many people commenting have confused or amalgamated the two.
How is the User Calibration mode activated?
Can’t find that information on the Moog site or manual.
Thanks in advance!
Jim Roseberry
Purrrfect Audio
www.studiocat.com
jim@studiocat.com

lfm
KVRAF

Topic Starter

5752 posts since 22 Jan, 2005 from Sweden

Post Wed Oct 13, 2021 2:21 am

In this new video he contemplates a lot more on this issue
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UU_FRV34mbY

and a lot of back and forth in menu where he turns it on and off.

KVRian
536 posts since 9 May, 2005

Post Wed Oct 13, 2021 6:30 am

lfm wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 2:21 am
In this new video he contemplates a lot more on this issue
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UU_FRV34mbY

and a lot of back and forth in menu where he turns it on and off.
Turning Oscillator Compensation on/off is easy (via menu).
I'm trying to find out how to initiate the (hidden) Oscillator Calibration.
Phil Aiken has mentioned this... but I haven't seen the button combination to execute it.
Jim Roseberry
Purrrfect Audio
www.studiocat.com
jim@studiocat.com

lfm
KVRAF

Topic Starter

5752 posts since 22 Jan, 2005 from Sweden

Post Wed Oct 13, 2021 7:49 am

Then check out release notes for firmware 1.4 on Moog site
https://back.moogmusic.com/sites/defaul ... v1.4.0.pdf

It's described there.

KVRian
536 posts since 9 May, 2005

Post Wed Oct 13, 2021 8:25 am

lfm wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 7:49 am
Then check out release notes for firmware 1.4 on Moog site
<span class="skimlinks-unlinked">https://back.moogmusic.com/sites/defaul ... .pdf</span>

It's described there.
Thanks for that.
FWIW, Those instructions are for the realtime Oscillator Compensation.

I contacted Moog Music support directly... and Jared forwarded a link with instructions to calibrate Moog One's voice cards. Process takes ~4 hours. Jared had responded within just a few minutes of my initial chat message.
Jim Roseberry
Purrrfect Audio
www.studiocat.com
jim@studiocat.com

User avatar
KVRist
66 posts since 29 Oct, 2018

Post Thu Oct 14, 2021 5:48 pm


KVRian
536 posts since 9 May, 2005

Post Fri Oct 15, 2021 6:11 am

Thanks for posting that video.

I ran the calibration routine a couple of times with fan-speed set to low.
Lower range still had an occasional note too far out of tune.

Left the Moog One running for 24 hours (with fan-speed set to normal), and ran the calibration routine again.
Lower range now seems in tune.

Because of cost and "quirks" (bugs/issues), some folks suggest Quantum, Poly Brute, Prophet 5/10 (instead of the Moog One).
I've had all those synths. While they can get into similar territory, none of them really sounds like a Moog.
Those are all good/great synths in their own right... just don't get one thinking it'll sound like a Moog One (sans quirks).

I originally drove to Sweetwater... because they had a Moog One 16-voice on display (as well as the other synths mentioned).
Loved the Moog One sound... but was worried that fan-noise and tuning issues would ruin it (for me).
Left with the Waldorf Quantum. Great solid modern synth with some analog(ish) capability.
Got home, programmed a few analog type sounds... and realized Quantum wasn't going to scratch that "Moog itch".
Back to Sweetwater, traded a bunch of higher-end guitar gear, and left with the Moog One.

The Moog One is a quirky synth:
- Fan Noise (at low setting not much of an issue)
- Tuning issues (mostly resolved at this point)
- Keyboard feels a little different than most (not bad but unlike anything I've played)
- Pitch and Mod wheels (like the keyboard) also feel different than anything I've played

Sound, depth/scope, and UI are the reasons I got the Moog One.
I've loved the Mini Moog, and Moog sound in general for decades.
Moog One (for me) is the chance to have a "mega" Moog synth... with depth to explore for years to come.

Normally, fan-noise drives me crazy (returned a Neve 5059 Summing Mixer due to fan noise).
You have to be able (willing) to live with the quirks...
Given the cost/quirks, Moog One is definitely a niche instrument.
I've read that Moog Music hasn't been quick to respond to user questions/concerns.
I contacted them yesterday (via their website's Chat feature).
Jared responded within just a few minutes... providing the information needed.
It would be nice if Moog Music was more communicative about firmware updates.
Jim Roseberry
Purrrfect Audio
www.studiocat.com
jim@studiocat.com

lfm
KVRAF

Topic Starter

5752 posts since 22 Jan, 2005 from Sweden

Post Fri Oct 15, 2021 11:42 am

Is the Moog One the first true polyphonic from Moog Music?
It's seems like a bold move either way.

As I felt about Arturia MatrixBrute and now PolyBrute.
One can't but love such bold moves.

I am learning on the DeepMind about interesting modulation sources and destinations and will see how I go about it in the future with other purchases. DeepMind does not match or surpass Prologue soundwise. So hoping Korg might do it again - and create an analog with far more modulations than Prologue has "DemonLogue" or something.

I really think my imagination is the limiting factor with what I have got now, so working on that....

KVRian
536 posts since 9 May, 2005

Post Mon Oct 18, 2021 11:24 am

Poly Moog and Memory Moog were both polyphonic predecessors to Moog One.

Modern synths offer a lot to explore.
Recently compared the OB-6 to the software Arturia OBX-a
Not 100% apples:apples, but I preferred the OB-6.
Had hoped to prefer the software...
Jim Roseberry
Purrrfect Audio
www.studiocat.com
jim@studiocat.com

lfm
KVRAF

Topic Starter

5752 posts since 22 Jan, 2005 from Sweden

Post Mon Oct 18, 2021 5:45 pm

Thanks, had a look here from your tips:

PolyMoog, explained as really paraphonic in text sharing one filter
https://www.moogmusic.com/news/polymoog-synthesizer

Replaced by any $100 keyboard today probably mimicing orchestral stuff more or less.

MemoryMoog though seems cool
https://www.moogmusic.com/news/memorymoog

Mystery why not releasing anything polyphonic until Moog One, almost 40 years later.
Superseeded by competition back then it seems reading the text about it.

There is a 16 voice MoogOne for half price sold here locally, but seems to me too much taking a chance. Maybe a problematic individual that shows up much later that is hard to do while at sellers place. Some things revealed by Shoebridge and others seems like lack of experience a bit when coming to poly instruments.

But one never knows, hands on a Moog One might be something that cannot be circumvented. I read up seriously in manual a year or so ago trying to get a grip how flexible routing for modulations are etc. Seems extensive.

Hoping Korg might turn up with something soon to raise the bar from Prologue with also 24 dB filters and proper modulation matrix or something.

Might even get a 16 voice Prologue too, to use even more of the voice features in it. Mono and Unison modes with creating sub voices both 1 and 2 octaves below is silly rich and phat with detuning with voice depth.

KVRian
876 posts since 8 May, 2018 from Sweden

Post Tue Oct 19, 2021 2:31 am

Jim Roseberry wrote:
Mon Oct 18, 2021 11:24 am
Poly Moog and Memory Moog were both polyphonic predecessors to Moog One.

Modern synths offer a lot to explore.
Recently compared the OB-6 to the software Arturia OBX-a
Not 100% apples:apples, but I preferred the OB-6.
Had hoped to prefer the software...
You would probably have preferred the OB-6 over a real OB-Xa too. OB-6 has a discrete, morphable 12 dB multimode SEM filter, more like the original SEM module filter and the 2/4/8 voice. OB-Xa is Curtis chips like a lot of later analog polys. Closest software emulation to the OB-6 would probably be Oberhausen, Arturia SEM-V or Cherry Audio 8-voice.

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