IK's 25th Anniversary Group Buy! Up to 25 for the price of 1

Buy and sell, post special offers, group buys, etc. NOT product announcements.
KVRAF
9020 posts since 16 Aug, 2006

Post Tue Oct 19, 2021 6:05 am

JJWL wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 5:55 am
I'm new to music and learning all about music software. I'm learning guitar and got in at the $150 and $100 levels.

I'm finding it overwhelming to figure out the entire software line. Other than Amplitube, what would be useful for creating simple songs in a classic rock style?
MODO Bass
MODO Drums (not my favorite drum library, but serviceable)
Sunset Studios (reverbs and room ambience)
T-Racks (get the base package)
Tape plugins (if you have the CPU)
Hammond X-3 (if you play keys/organ)
Leslie Collection (works great on guitars)
Classic Studio Reverbs (if you don't have anything outside of your DAW's reverbs)

Then you can probably round out with Amplitube collections and/or T-Racks processors - if you play keys, maybe consider the ElektroMagnetik Rhodes/Wurli or maybe Sampletank plus some drum libraries for more variety than just MODO Drums.

KVRian
880 posts since 3 Sep, 2011

Post Tue Oct 19, 2021 6:06 am

torgo wrote:
Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:24 pm
I'll also add that the iRig Keys I/O 49 and the iRig Pro Duo I/O are both excellent choices for anyone wanting a $199 entry point, especially if you are also an iPhone/iPad user. (Sadly, no Android love here.)

What I love about them both as hardware items is they can both run on USB power or even AA batteries. They also come with great software (which might affect your group buy plans) and iOS apps bundles, and the Pro Duo also comes with 25 gear credits.
It's the irig keys i/o 25 that is at the $199 level. Just something to be aware of though, it requires a proprietary cable and the asio driver availability is also kind of restricted. I also read that it has issues with or is not supported by some newer iPads but can't confirm this. Still seems like a useful device though, particularly for someone in need of a keyboard with some controls and an audio interface.

KVRer
15 posts since 7 Nov, 2020

Post Tue Oct 19, 2021 6:19 am

Funkybot's Evil Twin wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 6:05 am
T-Racks (get the base package)
Thanks for all the great suggestions.

Does T-Racks base mean SE or 5? I saw someone suggesting getting both.

Does IK have any good vintage synth emulations in Syntronik?

KVRAF
9020 posts since 16 Aug, 2006

Post Tue Oct 19, 2021 6:36 am

JJWL wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 6:19 am
Funkybot's Evil Twin wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 6:05 am
T-Racks (get the base package)
Thanks for all the great suggestions.

Does T-Racks base mean SE or 5? I saw someone suggesting getting both.
SE is a cut down version that only makes sense if you have a lot of T-Racks processors. To the best of my knowledge there's no benefit to getting both. You want T-Racks 5
JJWL wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 6:19 am
Does IK have any good vintage synth emulations in Syntronik?
I love synths, and vintage synths. I've less than zero interest in Syntronik. I'd stay away. Lots of great vintage synth emulations out there from companies like U-he, TAL, Softube, even Arturia. Syntronik samples synths, then runs them through modeled filters, and envelopes, but it's not the same as having a good modeled emulation IMO. I'd advise you to stay away from Syntronik and look elsewhere. YMMV.

KVRer
15 posts since 7 Nov, 2020

Post Tue Oct 19, 2021 7:03 am

Funkybot's Evil Twin wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 6:36 am
I love synths, and vintage synths. I've less than zero interest in Syntronik. I'd stay away. Lots of great vintage synth emulations out there from companies like U-he, TAL, Softube, even Arturia. Syntronik samples synths, then runs them through modeled filters, and envelopes, but it's not the same as having a good modeled emulation IMO. I'd advise you to stay away from Syntronik and look elsewhere. YMMV.
I got Arturia Analog Lab lite with a MIDI keyboard purchase. It has some nice synths. U-he has some gorgeous stuff but they seem quite expensive for me.

I'd never heard of Syntronik before, so I'm not surprised by what you say.

Thanks for all your help. :)

KVRAF
9020 posts since 16 Aug, 2006

Post Tue Oct 19, 2021 7:12 am

JJWL wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 7:03 am
I got Arturia Analog Lab lite with a MIDI keyboard purchase. It has some nice synths. U-he has some gorgeous stuff but they seem quite expensive for me.
I'd say hold out for some Black Friday deals (luckily software isn't impacted by chip shortages and supply chain issues so digital goods may be the best place to find deals). For example, you might be able to score a good deal on the Arturia Vintage Collection and get a ton of synths at once (some of Arturia's newer emulations are quite alright). TAL has reasonably priced synths that are quite good. For instance, their amazing Jupiter-8 emulation is $80 at regular price (TAL J-8: https://tal-software.com/products/tal-j-8 ). Seriously a great plugin! They have a Juno-60 and a SH-101 too, which are $60 each.

KVRist
308 posts since 5 Nov, 2007 from Liverpool, UK

Post Tue Oct 19, 2021 7:40 am

I felt the same about Syntronik - until I got the Bully as a freebie and loved it. I picked up the deluxe version as part of this group buy, and I'd absolutely recommend it to a guitar player looking for something to get up and running with, it's surprisingly tweakable, there's a lot more that you can control than I was expecting, and it all sounds great - I'm really impressed with it all, far more than I thought I might be.

Also, Sampletron is fantastic imo and would seem to fit the bill here, I'd certainly check that out.

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KVRian
639 posts since 27 Jul, 2010

Post Tue Oct 19, 2021 8:34 am

JJWL wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 6:19 am

...Does T-Racks base mean SE or 5? I saw someone suggesting getting both.

Does IK have any good vintage synth emulations in Syntronik?
Regarding T-Racks versions... getting both the Base and the SE, is just a better value.

There are four module overlaps, that are the same... between the two:

Classic T-RackS:
Compressor, Multi-band Limiter, Clipper, Equalizer


Everything else (between the two) is unique to each version:
  • Tape Echo
  • Black 76 Limiting Amplifier
  • White 2A Leveling Amplifier
  • Vintage Tube Compressor/Limiter Model 670
  • De-esser
  • CSR Room Reverb
  • Master Match
  • Dyna-Mu
  • EQual
  • Full Metering
  • One

So, that's 15 modules (total) for 2 freebie slots.

Now, regarding Syntronik... I'm a really hardcore synth programmer/sound designer, and was totally impressed with what they did here.

Syntronik is basically a rompler, but offers a lot of variation in the basic (raw/drift) OSC samples available, to use as starting points for your own unique patches. On top of that, they've emulated pretty much all the filters, from all the classic synths... in the whole collection. And made the entire set of filters available for every synth... so you can mix and match.

There's definitely a lot of limitations, from actual individually emulated analog and digital synth vst's (particularly FM)... but this collection still gives you enough to work with, in terms of sound design.

So, I think Syntronik's actually perfect for artists who may not be into advanced design... but still want some flexibility.

Also... you can goose the player into recognizing a learned midi-control (I use my midi keyboard's mod wheel), then change the CC into a unique (unused) number, your DAW can automate. So anything you can right-click on and "learn"... can be automated. Really useful for riding filters and resonance on things like the 303.

I wish they had included a way to populate the CC list, without having to use an external controller. A simple "Add CC" button, on the midi assignments pop-up... would have been cool.
Last edited by progtronic on Tue Oct 19, 2021 5:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

KVRian
852 posts since 10 Jan, 2010

Post Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:36 am

Agreed wrote:
Mon Oct 18, 2021 8:33 pm
chroma wrote:
Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:31 pm
The THD Bivalve used to have a feature where you could swap out the tubes long ago (like the hw), but doesn’t look like that is still there? Is it there but hidden?
Wasn't that just because the Bivalve originated the whole official amp model thing for them back at such a time as it was actually still using the old Preamp / Tone stack / Power amp interchangeable modeling structure? Getting away from that seems crucial in terms of developing the most accurate and best sounding modeling tech possible, but I think I remember what you are talking about at least.
Exactly… at one time you could do this for many of them but the bivalve was the most ‘obvious’ since the real amp could do that too (ie there was real behavior to model)….. I’m not sure what the point of the bivalve model is in amplitube anymore if it can’t do this … anyone know which tubes (since there are lots of choices) would be in the amplitube model?

KVRian
1314 posts since 3 Mar, 2009 from Colorado Springs

Post Tue Oct 19, 2021 11:00 am

You know I am pretty sure that it was never quite doing that, I think it was just swapping out the power section models as a whole with the other amps like it used to do. The only THD Bivalve power section model that I know of was the one that was enabled with it by default, called like Class A at that time, as I understand it. While that is somewhat analogous to how the THD Bivalve could use so many different tubes I do not believe it was modeling replacing the tubes in a Bivalve with different kinds of tubes in its cathode-biased power section. If I am wrong someone who knows for sure please correct me but that is my recollection.

On Syntroniks, I've been impressed with what it offers as well, expected a well-executed ROMpler but you can actually do some things with these patches that I would not have anticipated. And the quality of the oscillators is great sound-wise, which I did expect but it's nice! It was a single upgrade slot for the Deluxe crossgrade for me and I got it kind of on a lark, but I will be making use of it for some sounds.

KVRian
505 posts since 30 Jan, 2007

Post Tue Oct 19, 2021 12:47 pm

Funkybot's Evil Twin wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 6:36 am
SE is a cut down version that only makes sense if you have a lot of T-Racks processors. To the best of my knowledge there's no benefit to getting both. You want T-Racks 5
Actually, that's not the case with T-Racks. It's certainly true with other products (Amplitube, SampleTank), but in the T-Racks line the "Deluxe" version is the bigger set (and there's a Max version beyond that), while both T-Racks 5 and T-Racks 5 SE are roughly equal subsets. One especially unusual thing about the SE version is that it includes two modules (Tape Echo and CSR Room) that aren't even in Deluxe.

If you read through the product descriptions on the IK web site, it's pretty obvious that the focus is different between T-Racks and T-Racks SE. They're roughly the same size as far as the number of components, but outside of the four "classics", the flavors are very different.

The SE set includes modules that are popular for use on individual tracks and would likely be called up as individual plug-ins rather than using the shell. The Tape Echo and De-Esser are the most obvious examples. The Black 76 and White 2A could be used on an otherwise finished mix, but they're more common for single instrument channels or group busses. The other two modules in SE that aren't in T-Racks 5 are the CSR Room Reverb (quite old at this point but still very good) and the Vintage 670 (Fairchild) compressor.

Meanwhile, the "regular" T-Racks 5 has more of a mastering flavor to it, and if you read the Info tab on the product's web page, it's pretty clear they're pushing it for mastering your finished projects. You wouldn't use Master Match on individual channels within a mix. While I'd happily use One on an individual instrument, the page touts it as a "mastering processor" intended for "easy and straightforward audio finalization". Likewise, Dyna-Mu and EQual are well suited for mastering, and they push Dyna-Mu as ideal for a final mix, "amazingly gluing all the parts together". T-Racks 5 also has the advanced monitoring suite (not the same one as in the free CS shell), which the web page notes as being good for preparing broadcast-ready projects, including the new LUFS meter. The web page also pushes album assembly as a main function of the T-Racks 5 standalone suite. SE doesn't mention this (or the "standalone suite" - just the "shell" like in CS) at all.

Both sets include the four "Classic" modules (compressor, multi-band limiter, equalizer, clipper) that have been part of T-Racks since dinosaurs roamed the earth. These are generic effects rather than modeled after specific pieces of gear. They're still pretty good, but you probably won't use them much with the other modules readily available.


And what REALLY makes things confusing is how the T-Racks 5 sets differ from T-Racks 4 Deluxe. T-Racks 5 Deluxe has 22 processors. T-Racks 4 Deluxe had 9, pretty much in line with what we see in T-Racks 5 and T-Racks 5 SE.

In addition to the four "classics", T-Racks 4 Deluxe had the Vintage 670 compressor (same as in T-Racks 5), the Vintage Tube Program Equalizer (the Pultec, which you see elsewhere as the EQ-1A or EQP-1A), the Opto Compressor, the Linear Phase Equalizer, and the Brickwall Limiter. So even if you already have T-Racks 4 Deluxe, both 5 and 5 SE have new collections of prime processors to offer.

Interesting twist... the iRig Keys hardware products list T-Racks 4 Deluxe among the bonus software items included. The iRig Pro Duo I/O doesn't specify T-Racks 4 Deluxe, but it lists all of those processors individually as bonus goodies - and the Mic Room as well. If one of those hardware items happened to be your Group Buy entry, you could then add T-Racks 5 and T-Racks 5 SE as two bonus choices, and you'd have a quite comprehensive collection of 19 total processors with only two choices used.

KVRAF
9020 posts since 16 Aug, 2006

Post Tue Oct 19, 2021 12:58 pm

torgo wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 12:47 pm
Actually, that's not the case with T-Racks. It's certainly true with other products (Amplitube, SampleTank), but in the T-Racks line the "Deluxe" version is the bigger set (and there's a Max version beyond that), while both T-Racks 5 and T-Racks 5 SE are roughly equal subsets. One especially unusual thing about the SE version is that it includes two modules (Tape Echo and CSR Room) that aren't even in Deluxe.

If you read through the product descriptions on the IK web site, it's pretty obvious that the focus is different between T-Racks and T-Racks SE. They're roughly the same size as far as the number of components, but outside of the four "classics", the flavors are very different....
Thanks for correcting me there! I checked, and what you say is true and at the same time makes no damn sense! :lol:

[Peter if you're reading, skip all this] It amazes how inconsistent and convoluted IK constantly manages to make things and this is just another example. So "SE" means cut down in every product line, except in T-Racks, where it's not a cut down version, but rather an entirely different set of modules? Why? How can that possibly make sense to anyone? I seriously don't get the thinking over there. And not just this, there's dozens of bizarre things that IK does. But then they'll go have crazy Group Buys like this and you figure, "eh, I'll tolerate the things I don't like when they're giving me 24 products for the price of 1 that I got at a discount anyway." Sheesh...

User avatar
KVRAF

Topic Starter

7538 posts since 20 Oct, 2009

Post Tue Oct 19, 2021 2:31 pm

Funkybot's Evil Twin wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 12:58 pm
torgo wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 12:47 pm
Actually, that's not the case with T-Racks. It's certainly true with other products (Amplitube, SampleTank), but in the T-Racks line the "Deluxe" version is the bigger set (and there's a Max version beyond that), while both T-Racks 5 and T-Racks 5 SE are roughly equal subsets. One especially unusual thing about the SE version is that it includes two modules (Tape Echo and CSR Room) that aren't even in Deluxe.

If you read through the product descriptions on the IK web site, it's pretty obvious that the focus is different between T-Racks and T-Racks SE. They're roughly the same size as far as the number of components, but outside of the four "classics", the flavors are very different....
Thanks for correcting me there! I checked, and what you say is true and at the same time makes no damn sense! :lol:

[Peter if you're reading, skip all this] It amazes how inconsistent and convoluted IK constantly manages to make things and this is just another example. So "SE" means cut down in every product line, except in T-Racks, where it's not a cut down version, but rather an entirely different set of modules? Why? How can that possibly make sense to anyone? I seriously don't get the thinking over there. And not just this, there's dozens of bizarre things that IK does. But then they'll go have crazy Group Buys like this and you figure, "eh, I'll tolerate the things I don't like when they're giving me 24 products for the price of 1 that I got at a discount anyway." Sheesh...
You know I can't do that :) T-RackS 5 SE was made to be a choice when registering hardware so it is a diverse and different set of processors than T-RackS 5 itself. I'm surprised it was included in the group buy at all.
EXPOSED (this used to say... oops can't do that, but just know I do want to avoid violating vurt's moral code and stay out of his grey areas)
T-RackS Sunset Sound Studio Reverb

KVRer
15 posts since 7 Nov, 2020

Post Tue Oct 19, 2021 3:39 pm

Why am I eligible for the Syntronik Deluxe Upgrade if I've never purchased Syntronik before?

KVRist
94 posts since 11 Feb, 2004

Post Tue Oct 19, 2021 4:13 pm

JJWL wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 3:39 pm
Why am I eligible for the Syntronik Deluxe Upgrade if I've never purchased Syntronik before?
It's really a cross grade from any IK product priced $99 or above. I was confused by the upgrade terminology too.

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