Fraustrating problem with hammer noise on Piano VST's

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event2020
KVRist
159 posts since 6 Mar, 2017

Post Wed Oct 06, 2021 7:20 am

I have a fraustrating problem with hammer noise on Piano VST's where you can hear a audable thump from, either emulating or a recording of the hammer hitting the strings.

This happens when playing single notes, not chords.
I'm playing an arp that ranges from C4 - C5

By the time I've done some subtle EQ and buss compression the noise just ruins what I am trying to do. If I eq the noise out it leaves the sound tinny and nasty.

Its happening in
Arturia Piano V - German Grand (and many other presets)
EZ Keys - Grand Piano (and many other presets)
Korg - M1 (various patches)
Kontakt - The Grandeur and The Giant

Any suggestions, how would you deal with this?

event2020
KVRist

Topic Starter

159 posts since 6 Mar, 2017

Post Thu Oct 07, 2021 4:13 am

No One?

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BertKoor
KVRAF
13212 posts since 8 Mar, 2005 from Utrecht, Holland

Post Thu Oct 07, 2021 4:50 am

A compressor with the wrong (attack) settings can make this worse. How is it if you leave off the compressor?
We are the KVR collective. Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated. Image
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samantabharata
KVRer
14 posts since 20 Mar, 2021

Post Thu Oct 07, 2021 9:08 am

The Giant doesn't have that characteristic out-of-the-box.
Hammer there in [Anatomy, reveal:] Noises. Turn it down.
giant.hammer.jpg
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vurt
addled muppet weed
86379 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass

Post Thu Oct 07, 2021 9:33 am

99 problems und der frau ist nacht eine!

event2020
KVRist

Topic Starter

159 posts since 6 Mar, 2017

Post Thu Oct 07, 2021 9:49 am

Hi BertKoor

Exactky the same as the compressor is only catching any random peaks over 3k

event2020
KVRist

Topic Starter

159 posts since 6 Mar, 2017

Post Thu Oct 07, 2021 9:53 am

samantabharata wrote:
Thu Oct 07, 2021 9:08 am
The Giant doesn't have that characteristic out-of-the-box.
Hammer there in [Anatomy, reveal:] Noises. Turn it down.
giant.hammer.jpg
Hi

I tried that and it makes no difference.

The audio clip below is The Giant, default preset, no channel or buss processing and noise turned down.
The clip starts with a low-ish velocity and get gets played harder as it goes.

https://soundcloud.com/user-302625817-5 ... 4229fbecc2

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thecontrolcentre
KVRAF
31180 posts since 27 Jul, 2005 from the wilds of wanny

Post Thu Oct 07, 2021 10:06 am

Isn't the hammer part of the sound? I've sampled a few pianos and cant see how you can get away from it tbh. Maybe you could alter the attack on the samples to lose some of the initial sound?

samantabharata
KVRer
14 posts since 20 Mar, 2021

Post Thu Oct 07, 2021 10:07 am

There isn't any hammer noise there in that soundcloud post. (the jpg I made doesn't have the feature turned on: turn it on and crank it up and hear what hammer noise sounds like. That slider does a lot.)

That's what a piano sounds like, you're wanting something maybe like piano patch on an old rompler like Roland or something I think. There's a little bit of the sound of the keys being hit, but that's there, period.

You can cut into the attack using Kontakt, but that's just a normal piano sound.

event2020
KVRist

Topic Starter

159 posts since 6 Mar, 2017

Post Thu Oct 07, 2021 10:31 am

Thats strange because I listen to a lot of solo classical piano and if the noise is there in those recordings it is not noticable at all.

Although not classical, this is the original recording who's piano I am trying to emulate and there is no noise at all, just the notes.
https://soundcloud.com/user-302625817-5 ... 4229fbecc2

samantabharata
KVRer
14 posts since 20 Mar, 2021

Post Fri Oct 08, 2021 4:29 pm

Actually every note in that sounds like it was cut into to alter the attack, and not at all well, very choppy and unnatural.
If that's what you want, you can achieve it in Kontakt. the old Roland rack romplers at least sound smooth, though. The Giant is a very good-sounding piano really, that is butchered.

event2020
KVRist

Topic Starter

159 posts since 6 Mar, 2017

Post Wed Oct 20, 2021 5:08 pm

samantabharata wrote:
Fri Oct 08, 2021 4:29 pm
Actually every note in that sounds like it was cut into to alter the attack, and not at all well, very choppy and unnatural.
You may say that but the production on this is Nile Rodgers/ Bernard Edwards and the keyboard player is the late Raymond Jones of Chic.

Yes while a lot of classical piano players like to hear the hammer noise, you never hear it on pop / disco / RnB songs.

Just listen to any Elton John song, or Freddy Mercury's piano - all clean and full sounding

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BertKoor
KVRAF
13212 posts since 8 Mar, 2005 from Utrecht, Holland

Post Sat Oct 23, 2021 4:01 am

Funny you mention Elton John. His piano sound learned me what a compressor sounds like when pushed too far.
We are the KVR collective. Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated. Image
My MusicCalc is served over https!!

JamelaBanderson
KVRist
31 posts since 16 Mar, 2021

Post Sat Oct 23, 2021 8:59 pm

Do you hear it in Pianoteq? They have a trial version with all pianos that you can listen to before buying. I find it very clean, though the highest tier edition allows you to tweak specifics.

thisdjiknow
KVRer
1 posts since 24 Oct, 2021

Post Sun Oct 24, 2021 1:29 pm

I kinda side w/ the others that have said it could be a compression issue. Any time I've had an issue with a hammer strike, emulated or otherwise (in a piano obviously), it's generally got to do with the A/R on either the instrument itself or the compressor (compression can make matters DRASTICALLY worse). When I first started getting into production it took me a LONG time to get a feel for compression.

On synths there's been an audible noise (not a hammer obviously - but a similar "feel") before and I was able to remedy that by lowering the sustain IIRC.

I hope that helps.

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