Mac vs PC (split from "Apple announce...")

Configure and optimize you computer for Audio.
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KVRist
37 posts since 12 Mar, 2020

Post Sat Oct 23, 2021 7:42 am

BONES wrote:
Fri Oct 22, 2021 10:30 pm
I see. So "made up", then. Hardly compelling evidence, is it?
I use both and Macs a better for audio period...

- Core Audio baked into the OS, not having to rely on an ASIO driver.
- Built in Aggregate Device support.
- No need to mess around with the OS's power settings to get optimal audio performance.
- No loss of audio performance when running their laptops on battery
- Most hardware manufactures prioritise MacOS support

I could keep going...


I ordered a Dell XPS and had terrible latency issues, sent it back to dell. Sticking with Apple for all things mobile.

If your happy to tinker with your PC to get optimal performance that's perfectly fine but for the rest who like to just get their work done and focus more on the work itself, don't go saying that Mac's being better is "made up"
Win 10 9900k 32GB RAM | Ableton | FL Studio | S1 | RME Babyface Pro | Yamaha HS8 | MacOS Big Sur | MBP 15" 16GB RAM | Access Virus TI2 | Fabfilter | T-racks | Izotope

KVRer
6 posts since 24 Feb, 2021

Post Sat Oct 23, 2021 3:30 pm

The problem is that windows biggest advantage is also its biggest problem: options

Even the new Alder lake platform will have like 80 new mainboards and tons of different cpu and memory configurations.

New M1s are just 3 so far and more or less the same just with more cores. Software and hardware comes all from one hand.

So problems are less likely and whenthey occur many will have them and raise thei
R voice while on windows if you are unlucky hou are in a minority and your problem is very low on the fix list.

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KVRAF
1921 posts since 15 Mar, 2002 from Seattle, WA - USA

Post Sat Oct 23, 2021 3:37 pm

This debate has become so tiresome and pointless. Even entry level computing power can meet the needs of most audio hobbyists, so just stick with whatever’s most familiar. Choosing can be made even easier though by taking this simple survey:

Do you want to run Logic Pro? Get a Mac.

Do you want to game on your music computer? Get a PC.

Do you want a silent laptop? Get a MacBook.

Do you want to run 3D heavy applications at their best? Get a PC with an NVIDIA RTX GPU.

Do you want a computer that fits in at Starbucks after the pandemic is over? Get a Mac.

In most other areas it no longer matters anymore. Just make sure to invest in a good audio interface with quality device drivers and don’t load your computer up with unnecessary crap.

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GRRRRRRR!
12581 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle

Post Sat Oct 23, 2021 4:34 pm

Even that fails because if you really want a silent computer, you'll get one that's liquid cooled. I had a liquid cooled Acer 2-in-1 a few years ago that was fanless and only cost me about US$900. It was a terrific little machine and I did most of the production work for the first version of our most recent album on it (before we decided to re-do it on Cubase, by which time I had a new Dell).
echosystm wrote:
Sat Oct 23, 2021 4:31 am
I'll take a simple example. Tell me the model of your laptop and I'll tell you the last time it had a CVE for the CPU and how long it took Dell to fix it (if they fixed it at all). I predict it will be at least twice as long as Apple, assuming they fixed it at all.
And anyone would care about arcane shit like that because... ? BTW, my current laptop is an Asus, not a Dell, and it's not been patched by Asus since I got it. There are a couple of things queued up but I haven't bothered running them. OTOH, Dell used to patch my last one fairly regularly so they were probably well on top of that kind of shit I don't care about. And, honestly, I really don't care about that shit. If those are the lengths you have to go to, it helps make my case, in that it is something which does not make your "experience with S1 on Mac" better, as you claimed. It's not a "tangential reason", it is completely unrelated.
lb24569 wrote:
Sat Oct 23, 2021 7:42 am
- Core Audio baked into the OS, not having to rely on an ASIO driver.
Why is that better? You've stated a simple fact, you've not show why or how that's any kind of advantage. And nobody has to rely on ASIO anyway. Windows has it's own audio system, which works quite well these days. With Studio One, I get comparable performance using Windows Audio to ASIO. We can use either on stage, which gives us a bit of redundancy that you probably don't have in macOS. Choice is a good thing,
- Built in Aggregate Device support.
? Do you mean the ability to use multiple devices at once? So I could output Studio One to my USB audio device and hear it through my laptop speakers at the same time? I can see how that might be handy, although I can't imagine too many use-cases for it. But it's definitely a tick in the box for macOS.
- No need to mess around with the OS's power settings to get optimal audio performance.
Nor here, beyond setting up power management to suit me, rather than having to put up with whatever Microsoft decided was best for me, which is something I've been doing since before I ever even thought about using a computer for music. Again, you are taking something that is an advantage of Windows - choice - and trying to make it seem like a bad thing. Choice is never a bad thing.
- No loss of audio performance when running their laptops on battery
Why would you think it was otherwise with Windows? Sure, you can set it up to be like that but that's because Windows is much better at managing your battery than macOS is. Again, an advantage for Windows.
- Most hardware manufactures prioritise MacOS support
You mean like nVidia? Oh, that's right, you can't use nVidia graphics on a Mac, you're stuck with inferior AMD/ATi krap. In any event, I don't prioritise support, I prioritise a set-up that won't require any.
I could keep going...
But you'd just be digging yourself a deeper hole. From the things you've listed, it seems you are afraid of choice and want someone to take away all your options and make all those decisions for you, which I find exceedingly strange.
I ordered a Dell XPS and had terrible latency issues, sent it back to dell. Sticking with Apple for all things mobile.
From what you've said so far, I think that's probably for the best in your case. You're clearly used to having someone else do everything for you, which makes macOS a natural fit for you. OTOH, while I am by no means a tinkerer, I prefer to make my own decisions about how my computer works, whether it goes into a low power mode when it's on battery power or it stays on full power and which plan is the default.
If your happy to tinker with your PC to get optimal performance that's perfectly fine but for the rest who like to just get their work done and focus more on the work itself, don't go saying that Mac's being better is "made up"
I imagine you probably spend more time choosing your desktop wallpaper than I spend setting a new PC up the way I want it to work. And it only needs to be done once, so we're talking 5 minutes over the lifetime of ownership. Hardly the kind of imposition that would force you to make a different choice. OTOH, having 32 bit support taken away on a whim, as Apple did with Catalina, is a really good reason to f**k them off on the spot, I reckon. Not just because of the repercussions of doing that but because of the message it sends to every user that Apple don't give a flying f**k about you, if they can save a few bucks on development costs, they'll ruthlessly f**k off anything. And before you say "who cares", I'll point out that we made 4 albums using 32 bit software and if we want to be able to play those songs live, we need access to that 32 bit software so we can get the song(s) ready to import into a 64 bit environment. e.g. By removing 32 bit only plugins (mostly my SE synths) and finding suitable replacements that also have a 64 bit version. It is something we can do on an as required basis but if we'd been on a Mac, it would have been a huge f**k-around getting everything done, just in case, so we could upgrade to the latest OS. But if you think putting up with that kind of capricious bullshit if preferable to spending two minutes creating a custom power-plan once every few years, then have at it but don't try and tell me it's not the dumbest decision imaginable.
NOVAkILL : Zenbook Duo, Core i7, 16GB RAM, Win10(64), Evo8 | Studio One | JP6K, Union, Hexeract, bx_oberhausen, Odyssey, TRK-01, Vacuum Pro, Invader, Concept, GR-8, Thorn, Equator, VG Iron 2 | Uno Pro Desktop, Uno, Rocket.

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KVRAF
1921 posts since 15 Mar, 2002 from Seattle, WA - USA

Post Sat Oct 23, 2021 4:49 pm

Come on Bones, don’t be shy. Which MBP will you be getting? The 14” or the 16”?

KVRian
624 posts since 18 Feb, 2004

Post Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:57 pm

BONES wrote:
Sat Oct 23, 2021 4:34 pm
OTOH, having 32 bit support taken away on a whim, as Apple did with Catalina, is a really
I actually reported all of the Mac vs pc crap to the mods but I’m singling this out because 1 - it’s about the Mac and 2 - it’s wrong. I know youre not a software developer BONES and certainly not on a Mac…32-bit support was not “taken away on a whim” with Catalina. They had been talking about it literally for *years*. 64-bit transition started like a decade ago and in 2018 they announced the end of 32-bit support in Catalina in 2019.

And no offense but to your point of “we need 32-bit software to do x, y, and z” nobody was forcing anyone to upgrade. If its that important then don’t upgrade.

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KVRAF
11387 posts since 26 Jun, 2006 from San Francisco Bay Area

Post Sat Oct 23, 2021 7:03 pm

I ditched Mac a long time ago because I have FireWire devices and with a $40 PCIe card I’m up and running without a hiccup. Do any Apple computers have any sort of card expansion anymore? I don’t think so, and if those cheese grater models do, I don’t count them because they’re ridiculously expensive.
Zerocrossing Media

4th Law of Robotics: When turning evil, display a red indicator light. ~[ ●_● ]~

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KVRAF
11387 posts since 26 Jun, 2006 from San Francisco Bay Area

Post Sat Oct 23, 2021 7:12 pm

lb24569 wrote:
Sat Oct 23, 2021 7:42 am
BONES wrote:
Fri Oct 22, 2021 10:30 pm
I see. So "made up", then. Hardly compelling evidence, is it?
I use both and Macs a better for audio period...

- Core Audio baked into the OS, not having to rely on an ASIO driver.
…and when Apple changes stuff your software stops working and you have to wait for developers to rewrite their software.
- Built in Aggregate Device support.
Somewhat useful but adding a ADAT interface to your audio interface can give you plenty of cheap i/o.
- No need to mess around with the OS's power settings to get optimal audio performance.
Yes, with a PC you’ll have to spend 15 minutes changing the settings when you get it.
- No loss of audio performance when running their laptops on battery
OK… I guess that’s awesome for camping and Burning Man.
- Most hardware manufactures prioritise MacOS support
:lol: You’re killing me with that one.
I could keep going...
Please don’t.
I ordered a Dell XPS and had terrible latency issues, sent it back to dell. Sticking with Apple for all things mobile.
Translation: I didn’t go to Sweetwater’s web page and do the 15 minutes worth of system changes. Up until my current custom build, I’ve used Dell XPS computers and my last one hummed along with 32 samples of buffer size with no issues.
If your happy to tinker with your PC to get optimal performance that's perfectly fine but for the rest who like to just get their work done and focus more on the work itself, don't go saying that Mac's being better is "made up"
1992 called and it wants you to update your opinion. Also, don’t whine when Apple comes out with Pocono Mountains and none of your plugins work anymore.
Zerocrossing Media

4th Law of Robotics: When turning evil, display a red indicator light. ~[ ●_● ]~

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KVRian
1233 posts since 2 Sep, 2019

Post Sat Oct 23, 2021 7:31 pm

Y'all be like
Image
THIS MUSIC HAS BEEN MIXED TO BE PLAYED LOUD SO TURN IT UP

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KVRAF
11387 posts since 26 Jun, 2006 from San Francisco Bay Area

Post Sat Oct 23, 2021 8:01 pm

jamcat wrote:
Sat Oct 23, 2021 7:31 pm
Y'all be like
Image
One of those dudes still has a career. :lol:
Zerocrossing Media

4th Law of Robotics: When turning evil, display a red indicator light. ~[ ●_● ]~

KVRAF
9350 posts since 12 May, 2008

Post Sat Oct 23, 2021 8:23 pm

I'd love to go back to mac but the touch screen functionality on pcs is just too handy. Using plugins that are multi-touch compatible (and there are many, especially juce vsts3's) are a joy with an external monitor. Especially using touch freindly guitar amp sims and effects like Amplitube 5. So much better when holding a pick than trying to use a mouse. I don't know why this isn't a bigger deal to people. It's not like these screens are expensive. I bought mine for about 300 bucks.
System: Windows 10, Dell XPS 2-in-1, Bitwig 3, Steinberg UR44.

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KVRAF
20478 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Post Sat Oct 23, 2021 8:32 pm

zerocrossing wrote:
Sat Oct 23, 2021 7:12 pm
…and when Apple changes stuff your software stops working and you have to wait for developers to rewrite their software.
yeah, because Apple releasing a new OS makes all your software automatically stop working even if you don't update the OS. :hihi:

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KVRAF
20478 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Post Sat Oct 23, 2021 8:38 pm

zerocrossing wrote:
Sat Oct 23, 2021 7:12 pm
Also, don’t whine when Apple comes out with Pocono Mountains and none of your plugins work anymore.
yeah, because Apple releasing a new OS makes all your software automatically stop working even if you don't update the OS. :lol:

Seriously... I predict that there will be less disruption in the next few Mac OS updates. The dropping of 32 bit and the switch to Apple Silicon are done. Maybe 4 years from now Apple will drop Rosetta.

Pick Me Pick me!
9028 posts since 12 Mar, 2002 from a state of confusion

Post Sat Oct 23, 2021 8:40 pm

Tronam wrote:
Sat Oct 23, 2021 3:37 pm
This debate has become so tiresome and pointless.
Just like a game of Global Thermonuclear War, the only way to win is not to play at all.

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KVRAF
20478 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Post Sat Oct 23, 2021 8:56 pm

Echoes in the Attic wrote:
Sat Oct 23, 2021 8:23 pm
I don't know why this isn't a bigger deal to people.
For a lot of tasks, I prefer the mouse. It is more precise and doesn't get in the way visually like my hand in front of a touchscreen does.

I have lots of experience with the iPad Pro, including using the Pencil. Perhaps if more apps were entirely redesigned from the ground up for touch I would be more sold on it conceptually.

The other thing is, my studio monitor sits maybe 30 inches away from me and at eye height. I like that distance and height as far as visually and to minimize eye strain and keep good posture. I would have to lean forward to touch the screen and it would be rather tiring to hold my hand straight out for a few hours.

A touchscreen does not fit my preferred studio setup.

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