Mac vs PC (split from "Apple announce...")

Configure and optimize you computer for Audio.
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KVRAF
11376 posts since 26 Jun, 2006 from San Francisco Bay Area

Post Sat Oct 23, 2021 9:10 pm

pdxindy wrote:
Sat Oct 23, 2021 8:32 pm
zerocrossing wrote:
Sat Oct 23, 2021 7:12 pm
…and when Apple changes stuff your software stops working and you have to wait for developers to rewrite their software.
yeah, because Apple releasing a new OS makes all your software automatically stop working even if you don't update the OS. :hihi:
No, but you end up having to update the OS because you find that your web browsers no longer work. Believe me, I’ve been through that sh!t. Don’t get me wrong, I’ve got an iPhone 12, iPad Pro, Mac Mini, MacBook Air (that became a Chromebook) and an Apple TV. Not even counting they hit me up for cash every month for Apple Music and TV. They have plenty of my money, but for actual music, their computers don’t make sense. If they made something like an old G series tower that was between 2 and 3 thousand, I might go back, but they’ve long decided that they don’t care about that market and that market includes me.
Zerocrossing Media

4th Law of Robotics: When turning evil, display a red indicator light. ~[ ●_● ]~

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KVRAF
20422 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Post Sat Oct 23, 2021 9:32 pm

zerocrossing wrote:
Sat Oct 23, 2021 9:10 pm
No, but you end up having to update the OS because you find that your web browsers no longer work.
I'm often an OS iteration behind... sometimes two OS'es behind and never once had my web browser stop working.

zerocrossing wrote:
Sat Oct 23, 2021 9:10 pm
...but for actual music, their computers don’t make sense.
Yup... there are no studios using Pro Tools and/or Logic for high end audio work... :hihi: :hihi: :hihi:

KVRAF
9346 posts since 12 May, 2008

Post Sat Oct 23, 2021 11:04 pm

pdxindy wrote:
Sat Oct 23, 2021 8:56 pm
Echoes in the Attic wrote:
Sat Oct 23, 2021 8:23 pm
I don't know why this isn't a bigger deal to people.
For a lot of tasks, I prefer the mouse. It is more precise and doesn't get in the way visually like my hand in front of a touchscreen does.

I have lots of experience with the iPad Pro, including using the Pencil. Perhaps if more apps were entirely redesigned from the ground up for touch I would be more sold on it conceptually.

The other thing is, my studio monitor sits maybe 30 inches away from me and at eye height. I like that distance and height as far as visually and to minimize eye strain and keep good posture. I would have to lean forward to touch the screen and it would be rather tiring to hold my hand straight out for a few hours.

A touchscreen does not fit my preferred studio setup.
Yes there are definitely things that are easier with the mouse. No need to give that up. I think the key to making good use of a touch monitor is to have an adjustable arm for the screen. You can quickly move it up or bring it closer at an angle. They are cheap too. But yeah it's not practical without that.

I also use a windows surface dial with elephant (https://savethehuman5.com/elephant/), which is also amazing. Not sure if mac has something like this. Actually the combination of mouse, touchscreen and surface dial is sort of the perfect combo. You can touch s control and then have fine adjustment with the dial.
System: Windows 10, Dell XPS 2-in-1, Bitwig 3, Steinberg UR44.

KVRist
391 posts since 5 Feb, 2012

Post Sat Oct 23, 2021 11:43 pm

zerocrossing wrote:
Sat Oct 23, 2021 7:03 pm
I ditched Mac a long time ago because I have FireWire devices and with a $40 PCIe card I’m up and running without a hiccup. Do any Apple computers have any sort of card expansion anymore? I don’t think so, and if those cheese grater models do, I don’t count them because they’re ridiculously expensive.
What are you talking about? Just go on Amazon and search for Thunderbolt to Firewire adapter and you can have it 1 or 2 days if you have Amazon Prime. FYI, the adapter is less than $40.
Matrix-1000, MicroWave with Access programmer, MicroWave II, MKS-50 with MidiClub programmer, MKS-70, MKS-80 with Kiwi Patch Editor, Nord 2 Rack, Nord 3 Rack, Prophet REV2 module, Pulse 2, Shruthi, Virus TI

KVRist
391 posts since 5 Feb, 2012

Post Sun Oct 24, 2021 12:04 am

Tronam wrote:
Sat Oct 23, 2021 3:37 pm
This debate has become so tiresome and pointless. Even entry level computing power can meet the needs of most audio hobbyists, so just stick with whatever’s most familiar. Choosing can be made even easier though by taking this simple survey:

Do you want to run Logic Pro? Get a Mac.

Do you want to game on your music computer? Get a PC.

Do you want a silent laptop? Get a MacBook.

Do you want to run 3D heavy applications at their best? Get a PC with an NVIDIA RTX GPU.

Do you want a computer that fits in at Starbucks after the pandemic is over? Get a Mac.

In most other areas it no longer matters anymore. Just make sure to invest in a good audio interface with quality device drivers and don’t load your computer up with unnecessary crap.
The survey is even simpler:

Do you value the size of your pocketbook more than the connection to your music-making tools?

I get it. Maybe you have kids in private school and that's your priority. Or perhaps you'd just rather drive an $80,000 Mercedes than spend $5,000 on a iMac that has a gorgeous 5K screen.

Macs are (a little) more expensive. But you get what you pay for.
Last edited by Gadget Fiend on Sun Oct 24, 2021 1:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
Matrix-1000, MicroWave with Access programmer, MicroWave II, MKS-50 with MidiClub programmer, MKS-70, MKS-80 with Kiwi Patch Editor, Nord 2 Rack, Nord 3 Rack, Prophet REV2 module, Pulse 2, Shruthi, Virus TI

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KVRAF
4299 posts since 7 Jun, 2012 from Warsaw

Post Sun Oct 24, 2021 12:24 am

To me, it only depends on your computer engineering skills:

If you can assemble and configure your own PC system tailored to your needs, you will get more value for money. If you cannot, you have to pay someone else (Apple) to do that for you ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Then you are dependent on them when it comes to repairs, upgrades (M1, I'm looking at you) and design decisions.

Another advantage of PC is common presence of free content (plugins, but also open software) just ready to pick up. There are not many developers who code for Mac, on the other hand, and they rarely do it for free.
Blog ------------- YouTube channel
Tricky-Loops wrote: (...)someone like Armin van Buuren who claims to make a track in half an hour and all his songs sound somewhat boring(...)

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Urs
u-he
26016 posts since 8 Aug, 2002 from Berlin

Post Sun Oct 24, 2021 12:55 am

zerocrossing wrote:
Sat Oct 23, 2021 7:03 pm
Do any Apple computers have any sort of card expansion anymore?
I have a current Mac Pro under my desk and I'm fairly sure it has more expansion space than I'll ever need.

But anyhow, with Thunderbolt the question has become moot. It's merely the question if you want your expansions *inside* the shell of your computer, or if you're happy to attach them with a cable. If you prefer former, you simply have a big box around that's mostly empty until you know what to put inside. If you prefer latter, you can just get a mobile device and attach your super powered GPU with a cable.

KVRAF
1863 posts since 20 Oct, 2014

Post Sun Oct 24, 2021 1:01 am

Would love to see "Mac Semi-Pro" regarding the price (and number of slots maybe) with the M1max chip. Maybe some kind a mac mini, but with at least 4 ssd / hdd drive slots, some boring usb 3 ports and a lot of more ports generally (hdmi 2, mini display port, audio in, audio out), placed in a intelligent manner, so the table won't be filled with cables and adaptors anymore. It does not need to be the smallest, thinnest computer of the would, it's enough if it just does not look ugly.

Does anybody else need this, too?

KVRist
391 posts since 5 Feb, 2012

Post Sun Oct 24, 2021 1:10 am

BONES wrote:
Sat Oct 23, 2021 4:34 pm
"It seems you are afraid of choice and want someone to take away all your options and make all those decisions for you."

"You're clearly used to having someone else do everything for you, which makes macOS a natural fit for you."

"I imagine you probably spend more time choosing your desktop wallpaper than I spend setting a new PC up the way I want it to work."
I asked this in another response to one of your posts. But are you just an insufferable blowhard or do you have a mental condition that makes you incapable of recognizing how obnoxious you really are? Can't you understand that you would be far more likely to have people support your views if you weren't so off-putting? I'd really like to know because I would like to think that people are genuinely decent.
BONES wrote:
Sat Oct 23, 2021 4:34 pm
"Again, you are taking something that is an advantage of Windows - choice - and trying to make it seem like a bad thing. Choice is never a bad thing."
I know this will be difficult if not impossible to get through that (hopefully impaired) brain of yours, but fewer choices is almost always a better design paradigm than endless options. People who buy a Mac do so knowing that they have spent a premium to pay the very smart people at Apple to figure out the best one or two ways to complete a given task. In contrast, Microsoft is under the thumb of their corporate overlords who make all manner of silly feature requests because they are, well, clueless IT managers making the requests. And rather than have a spine and an informed point of view about what they want their software to be, Microsoft simply throws up its hands and says "we will implement it all" rather than take the chance of pissing off one of their key corporate accounts.

At least Steve Jobs had the balls to say no when stupid ideas were presented to him.
Matrix-1000, MicroWave with Access programmer, MicroWave II, MKS-50 with MidiClub programmer, MKS-70, MKS-80 with Kiwi Patch Editor, Nord 2 Rack, Nord 3 Rack, Prophet REV2 module, Pulse 2, Shruthi, Virus TI

KVRist
391 posts since 5 Feb, 2012

Post Sun Oct 24, 2021 1:24 am

Hanz Meyzer wrote:
Sun Oct 24, 2021 1:01 am
Would love to see "Mac Semi-Pro" regarding the price (and number of slots maybe) with the M1max chip. Maybe some kind a mac mini, but with at least 4 ssd / hdd drive slots, some boring usb 3 ports and a lot of more ports generally (hdmi 2, mini display port, audio in, audio out), placed in a intelligent manner, so the table won't be filled with cables and adaptors anymore. It does not need to be the smallest, thinnest computer of the would, it's enough if it just does not look ugly.

Does anybody else need this, too?
I think if the upcoming Mac Mini has the same complement of ports as the new 14" and 16" MacBook Pros but with one extra ThunderBolt port (4 total,) that would be enough. If you need more than 8 TB of storage (or want less expensive storage options) you can buy an Other World Computing 4-drive "Thunderbay" and load it up with 4 SSDs of any capacity you choose (as far as I know). A 7-port Thunderbolt to USB 3.1 hub can't be that expensive. Such a hub would provide as many USB ports as most people would need.

So I don't think the "Mac Semi-Pro" form factor you describe is really necessary. In such a computer, most people would be paying for drive bays and USB ports that they don't need or can get more cheaply with outboard expansion options.
Matrix-1000, MicroWave with Access programmer, MicroWave II, MKS-50 with MidiClub programmer, MKS-70, MKS-80 with Kiwi Patch Editor, Nord 2 Rack, Nord 3 Rack, Prophet REV2 module, Pulse 2, Shruthi, Virus TI

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KVRAF
1760 posts since 17 Jun, 2005

Post Sun Oct 24, 2021 6:19 am

Gadget Fiend wrote:
Sun Oct 24, 2021 1:10 am
fewer choices is almost always a better design paradigm than endless options.
This is sort of true, but it's often also mentioned in the "wrong place" when discussing serious tools and environments. In other words, generally this is true and commercially sensible when targeting consumers and talking about consumer products (think any consumer/hobbyist level products in categories like cameras, photo/video editing software, mobile solutions, measuring devices, kitchen appliances - anything), and not true when targeting professionals and talking about the primary tools used in a particular line of work. The demands and need for control, of a serious power user like that, are far greater. This just as a general observation, based on just that paradigm comment; not saying that there isn't sufficient control, for those in the know and in the need of such, in any major desktop operating system these days.

KVRian
623 posts since 18 Feb, 2004

Post Sun Oct 24, 2021 7:56 am

DJ Warmonger wrote:
Sun Oct 24, 2021 12:24 am
To me, it only depends on your computer engineering skills:

If you can assemble and configure your own PC system tailored to your needs, you will get more value for money.
fully capable of this and no, I wont get more value for my money. Part of the value in my computer is that its running macOS. Used to build my own PCs and ran Windows for decades. I don’t do that any longer because its no longer “more value for my money”. And when I bought my 5K iMac there simply wasn’t a screen that good available elsewhere for the price of the iMac.

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KVRAF
20422 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Post Sun Oct 24, 2021 10:36 am

Guenon wrote:
Sun Oct 24, 2021 6:19 am
In other words, generally this is true and commercially sensible when targeting consumers and talking about consumer products (think any consumer/hobbyist level products in categories like cameras, photo/video editing software, mobile solutions, measuring devices, kitchen appliances - anything), and not true when targeting professionals...
It is also true for most of the professionals I have known (and was one of them myself).

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KVRAF
1760 posts since 17 Jun, 2005

Post Sun Oct 24, 2021 11:03 am

pdxindy wrote:
Sun Oct 24, 2021 10:36 am
It is also true for most of the professionals I have known (and was one of them myself).
We are most probably talking about different things here.

KVRer
10 posts since 10 Feb, 2021

Post Sun Oct 24, 2021 11:54 am

pdxindy wrote:
Sat Oct 23, 2021 9:32 pm
zerocrossing wrote:
Sat Oct 23, 2021 9:10 pm
No, but you end up having to update the OS because you find that your web browsers no longer work.
I'm often an OS iteration behind... sometimes two OS'es behind and never once had my web browser stop working.

zerocrossing wrote:
Sat Oct 23, 2021 9:10 pm
...but for actual music, their computers don’t make sense.
Yup... there are no studios using Pro Tools and/or Logic for high end audio work... :hihi: :hihi: :hihi:
Mac Pro from 2007 still chugging along doing what I bought it to do 14 years ago. Run logic.

My web browsers still work???

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