Mac vs PC (split from "Apple announce...")

Configure and optimize you computer for Audio.
echosystm
KVRist
163 posts since 24 Oct, 2006

Post Sun Oct 24, 2021 3:57 pm

BONES wrote:
Sat Oct 23, 2021 4:34 pm
And anyone would care about arcane shit like that because... ?
... because they understand things that you don't and appreciate quality.

fedexnman
KVRAF
2908 posts since 4 Jan, 2005

Post Sun Oct 24, 2021 4:26 pm

I like Windows , I like Android , I like Linux . I do NOT like iOS15 at the moment having problems with wife and mom's iPhones and bugs. I'd love to have Mac OS on my PC . I've had MacBooks they are nice . Looked into a Macmini M1 but lack of ports is a serious deal breaker. Maybe the next Macmini M1X ? Who knows .

paradiddle
KVRAF
1542 posts since 15 Aug, 2001 from montreal, canada

Post Sun Oct 24, 2021 4:43 pm

As long time PC users, I've had a macbook pro since 2016 and definitely prefer Core audio over Asio but not in terms of performance or stability but more than I can run more than 1 audio app at the same time easily as opposed to Asio(I know some have multi-client asio). It's definitely doable on pc with 3rd party routing apps but I hate fiddling with stuff anymore.

Worst thing about Apple, constantly breaking compability on IOS or mac os. It's their way or the highway.

Awesome thing on windows, I can still use old 32 bit plugins/apps on windows for some stuff. Lots of old stuff still works which is really awesome in that respect.

I'm definitely gonna pick up a M1pro macbook pro 14 cuz I use Logic a lot and seems really optimised for the m1 but my main video/music machine is a pc.
Stuck in Aperture Laboratories for a 2nd time!

jancivil
KVRAF
23615 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from gonesville

Post Sun Oct 24, 2021 4:46 pm

"when Apple comes out with Pocono Mountains and none of your plugins work anymore."
has no reality. People in the Mac world (NB: I don't have any other device, it's whether this works for the music I make or doesn't it. It drank the competition's milkshake, what I have for the price point.) are not forced to embrace the new. I just finally updated to Big Sur, and there was exactly no change to my plugins. Even updating the IKM stuff which they like to break the internal ID for in major updates, no change in projects. I have no compelling reason to push the OS past development of DAW/plugins. the only people that do must not mind show-stopping issues, ie., are interested in other things with it.

I updated the OS to this like I tend to do, at a mature stage of it, probably the penultimate version and then there's just security updates. Normally I won't even have bothered, but this is reputed to be a snappier experience, and the fact is it's giving me more performance, noticably.

It's an absurd argument, it's made of nicely flammable straw tho.

perpetual3
KVRAF
1872 posts since 28 Sep, 2012

Post Sun Oct 24, 2021 4:51 pm

jancivil wrote:
Sun Oct 24, 2021 4:46 pm
"when Apple comes out with Pocono Mountains and none of your plugins work anymore."
has no reality. People in the Mac world (NB: I don't have any other device, it's whether this works for the music I make or doesn't it. It drank the competition's milkshake, what I have for the price point.) are not forced to embrace the new. I just finally updated to Big Sur, and there was exactly no change to my plugins. Even updating the IKM stuff which they like to break the internal ID for in major updates, no change in projects. I have no compelling reason to push the OS past development of DAW/plugins. the only people that do must not mind show-stopping issues, ie., are interested in other things with it.

I updated the OS to this like I tend to do, at a mature stage of it, probably the penultimate version and then there's just security updates. Normally I won't even have bothered, but this is reputed to be a snappier experience, and the fact is it's giving me more performance, noticably.

It's an absurd argument, it's made of nicely flammable straw tho.
Oh this is good to know. I’m still on Catalina.

jancivil
KVRAF
23615 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from gonesville

Post Sun Oct 24, 2021 4:54 pm

someone else might love all their 32-bit stuff and a whole world I don't live in anymore, and that's great, they can stick with the other platform.
It's lower latency for certain applications, if I didn't hate the aesthetic and their microflaccid ways I could embrace it as a way o life.
I prefer the minor irritations of the Mac OS experience, they seem less in the way. For me.

rezoneight
KVRian
635 posts since 18 Feb, 2004

Post Sun Oct 24, 2021 5:01 pm

zerocrossing wrote:
Sat Oct 23, 2021 7:12 pm
1992 called and it wants you to update your opinion. Also, don’t whine when Apple comes out with Pocono Mountains and none of your plugins work anymore.
This statement is idiotic. I've been using Macs since the Intel ones came out in 2006. The only plugins that I have that don't work right now on Monterey 15 years later are anything 32-bit and those were pretty much all abandonware.

If you don't want to use a Mac for making your music good for you. But stop putting your foot in your mouth.

User avatar
BONES
GRRRRRRR!
12757 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle

Post Sun Oct 24, 2021 5:04 pm

echosystm wrote:
Sat Oct 23, 2021 4:31 am
I'll take a simple example. Tell me the model of your laptop and I'll tell you the last time it had a CVE for the CPU and how long it took Dell to fix it (if they fixed it at all). I predict it will be at least twice as long as Apple, assuming they fixed it at all.
And anyone would care about arcane shit like that because... ? BTW, my current laptop is an Asus, not a Dell, and it's not been patched by Asus since I got it. There are a couple of things queued up but I haven't bothered running them. OTOH, Dell used to patch my last one fairly regularly so they were probably well on top of that kind of shit I don't care about. And, honestly, I really don't care about that shit. If those are the lengths you have to go to, it helps make my case, in that it is something which does not make your "experience with S1 on Mac" better, as you claimed. It's not a "tangential reason", it is completely unrelated.
lb24569 wrote:
Sat Oct 23, 2021 7:42 am
- Core Audio baked into the OS, not having to rely on an ASIO driver.
Why is that better? You've stated a simple fact, you've not show why or how that's any kind of advantage. And nobody has to rely on ASIO anyway. Windows has it's own audio system, which works quite well these days. With Studio One, I get comparable performance using Windows Audio to ASIO. We can use either on stage, which gives us a bit of redundancy that you probably don't have in macOS. Choice is a good thing,
- Built in Aggregate Device support.
? Do you mean the ability to use multiple devices at once? So I could output Studio One to my USB audio device and hear it through my laptop speakers at the same time? I can see how that might be handy, although I can't imagine too many use-cases for it. But it's definitely a tick in the box for macOS.
- No need to mess around with the OS's power settings to get optimal audio performance.
Nor here, beyond setting up power management to suit me, rather than having to put up with whatever Microsoft decided was best for me, which is something I've been doing since before I ever even thought about using a computer for music. Again, you are taking something that is an advantage of Windows - choice - and trying to make it seem like a bad thing. Choice is never a bad thing.
- No loss of audio performance when running their laptops on battery
Why would you think it was otherwise with Windows? Sure, you can set it up to be like that but that's because Windows is much better at managing your battery than macOS is. Again, an advantage for Windows.
- Most hardware manufactures prioritise MacOS support
You mean like nVidia? Oh, that's right, you can't use nVidia graphics on a Mac, you're stuck with inferior AMD/ATi krap. In any event, I don't prioritise support, I prioritise a set-up that won't require any.
I could keep going...
But you'd just be digging yourself a deeper hole. From the things you've listed, it seems you are afraid of choice and want someone to take away all your options and make all those decisions for you, which I find exceedingly strange.
I ordered a Dell XPS and had terrible latency issues, sent it back to dell. Sticking with Apple for all things mobile.
From what you've said so far, I think that's probably for the best in your case. You're clearly used to having someone else do everything for you, which makes macOS a natural fit for you. OTOH, while I am by no means a tinkerer, I prefer to make my own decisions about how my computer works, whether it goes into a low power mode when it's on battery power or it stays on full power and which plan is the default.
If your happy to tinker with your PC to get optimal performance that's perfectly fine but for the rest who like to just get their work done and focus more on the work itself, don't go saying that Mac's being better is "made up"
I imagine you probably spend more time choosing your desktop wallpaper than I spend setting a new PC up the way I want it to work. And it only needs to be done once, so we're talking 5 minutes over the lifetime of ownership. Hardly the kind of imposition that would force you to make a different choice. OTOH, having 32 bit support taken away on a whim, as Apple did with Catalina, is a really good reason to f**k them off on the spot, I reckon. Not just because of the repercussions of doing that but because of the message it sends to every user that Apple don't give a flying f**k about you, if they can save a few bucks on development costs, they'll ruthlessly f**k off anything. And before you say "who cares", I'll point out that we made 4 albums using 32 bit software and if we want to be able to play those songs live, we need access to that 32 bit software so we can get the song(s) ready to import into a 64 bit environment. e.g. By removing 32 bit only plugins (mostly my SE synths) and finding suitable replacements that also have a 64 bit version. It is something we can do on an as required basis but if we'd been on a Mac, it would have been a huge f**k-around getting everything done, just in case, so we could upgrade to the latest OS. But if you think putting up with that kind of capricious bullshit if preferable to spending two minutes creating a custom power-plan once every few years, then have at it but don't try and tell me it's not the dumbest decision imaginable.
NOVAkILL : Zenbook Duo, Core i7, 16GB RAM, Win10(64), Evo8 | Studio One | JP6K, Union, Hexeract, bx_oberhausen, Odyssey, TRK-01, Vacuum Pro, Invader, Concept, GR-8, Thorn, Equator, Olga, VG Iron | Uno Pro, Uno, Rocket.

echosystm
KVRist
163 posts since 24 Oct, 2006

Post Sun Oct 24, 2021 6:27 pm

BONES wrote:
Sun Oct 24, 2021 5:04 pm
OTOH, having 32 bit support taken away on a whim, as Apple did with Catalina, is a really good reason to f**k them off on the spot, I reckon. Not just because of the repercussions of doing that but because of the message it sends to every user that Apple don't give a flying f**k about you, if they can save a few bucks on development costs, they'll ruthlessly f**k off anything.
Apple: So, it's 2009 and we should probably start supporting 64 bit hardware.

Software developer: Nah. Our customers are dumb enough to keep giving us money.

Apple: Ok guys, 10 years have passed and we can't support your nonsense anymore.

Software developer: Nah. Our customers are still dumb enough to keep giving us money.

Boner: APPLE F***ING SUCK!

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

User avatar
masterhiggins
KVRAF
2701 posts since 31 Dec, 2004 from People's Republic of Minnesota

Post Sun Oct 24, 2021 6:41 pm

Yeah 12 years isn't a "whim." It's a "hey, this is a decision we're making that we're going to be dropping 32-bit support many years from now." Dinosaurs are gonna dinosaur.

User avatar
pdxindy
KVRAF
20912 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Post Sun Oct 24, 2021 7:17 pm

I just updated from Catalina to Big Sur. Totally smooth, no issues and the performance is a bit better.

paradiddle
KVRAF
1542 posts since 15 Aug, 2001 from montreal, canada

Post Sun Oct 24, 2021 10:42 pm

Stuck in Aperture Laboratories for a 2nd time!

BrokenTrance
KVRist
422 posts since 25 Nov, 2010

Post Mon Oct 25, 2021 12:09 am

fedexnman wrote:
Sun Oct 24, 2021 4:26 pm
I'd love to have Mac OS on my PC .
This is correct.

User avatar
teilo
KVRian
1100 posts since 30 Mar, 2008 from MN, USA

Post Mon Oct 25, 2021 5:02 am

For the record, I updated from Big Sur to the Monterey RC. Nothing broke. As someone else here has said, we should be past the update breakage for a while.

The series of updates that broke things were, in order, caused by code signing requirements, the elimination of 32-bit, notarization, the sealing of the system partition making it read-only, and the extension of code signing to libraries. The last one was the biggest PITA, and we're still not past the consequences. But I know the workarounds to make older 64-bit plugins work. However, I'm comfortable in Terminal, and I can fully understand that others aren't.

In any case, all the above changes, save for the elimination of 32-bit code, were security decisions. As much as a pain as it has been, the sealing of the system partition was an excellent decision, as it makes it pretty much impossible to rootkit a Mac. From an IT perspective, it makes it pretty trivial to cleanup a malware infection on a Mac, as everything runs in user space.

There isn't much more that Apple could do at this point to enhance the security of the system that would affect binary compatibility, which is why, from a producer's perspective, Monterey is a ho-hum update. (macOS 13 will eliminate legacy kernel extensions, so I suppose that could affect some older audio hardware that doesn't use the built-in drivers.) Even Rogue Amoeba, whose software intercepts system and app audio and injects audio devices into the system, has compatible versions of all their audio-routing stuff out well before Monterey's official release.

sQeetz
KVRian
702 posts since 8 Jan, 2005

Post Mon Oct 25, 2021 12:34 pm

teilo wrote:
Mon Oct 25, 2021 5:02 am
For the record, I updated from Big Sur to the Monterey RC. Nothing broke.
Just updated and everything is fine here, too. Every DAW, every plugin, all apps, every peripheral (even my old laser printer... I already had one of the early betas installed and the printer didn't work back then. All is good :)
MacBook Pro M1 . 16GB . 1TB . . Logic Pro……Renoise……Reason

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