Mac vs PC (split from "Apple announce...")

Configure and optimize you computer for Audio.
FrankFante
KVRer
4 posts since 25 Oct, 2021

Post Mon Oct 25, 2021 3:24 pm

I've installed on a freshly formatted iMac Pro all my plugins. As for now Exponential Audio's (now Izotope) Stratus / Symphony and Excalibur won't open at all (VST/VST3/AU). Pheonixverb Stereo works though.. Any workaround?
teilo wrote:
Mon Oct 25, 2021 5:02 am
For the record, I updated from Big Sur to the Monterey RC. Nothing broke. As someone else here has said, we should be past the update breakage for a while.

The series of updates that broke things were, in order, caused by code signing requirements, the elimination of 32-bit, notarization, the sealing of the system partition making it read-only, and the extension of code signing to libraries. The last one was the biggest PITA, and we're still not past the consequences. But I know the workarounds to make older 64-bit plugins work. However, I'm comfortable in Terminal, and I can fully understand that others aren't.

In any case, all the above changes, save for the elimination of 32-bit code, were security decisions. As much as a pain as it has been, the sealing of the system partition was an excellent decision, as it makes it pretty much impossible to rootkit a Mac. From an IT perspective, it makes it pretty trivial to cleanup a malware infection on a Mac, as everything runs in user space.

There isn't much more that Apple could do at this point to enhance the security of the system that would affect binary compatibility, which is why, from a producer's perspective, Monterey is a ho-hum update. (macOS 13 will eliminate legacy kernel extensions, so I suppose that could affect some older audio hardware that doesn't use the built-in drivers.) Even Rogue Amoeba, whose software intercepts system and app audio and injects audio devices into the system, has compatible versions of all their audio-routing stuff out well before Monterey's official release.

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pdxindy
KVRAF
20494 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Post Mon Oct 25, 2021 3:33 pm

FrankFante wrote:
Mon Oct 25, 2021 3:24 pm
I've installed on a freshly formatted iMac Pro all my plugins. As for now Exponential Audio's (now Izotope) Stratus / Symphony and Excalibur won't open at all (VST/VST3/AU). Pheonixverb Stereo works though.. Any workaround?
They were working in Big Sur but now not in Monterey?

Are they iLok?

superscan
KVRist
276 posts since 2 Aug, 2013 from USA

Post Mon Oct 25, 2021 3:55 pm

They work for me in Big Sur and yes they are iLok.

FrankFante
KVRer
4 posts since 25 Oct, 2021

Post Mon Oct 25, 2021 8:03 pm

Yes they are all iLok.. No problem with all of them in Big Sur.

FrankFante
KVRer
4 posts since 25 Oct, 2021

Post Mon Oct 25, 2021 8:05 pm

Everything else seems fine at the moment. I work with many different plugins as I mix postproduction stuff.

legendCNCD
KVRian
1179 posts since 23 Sep, 2004 from Kocmoc

Post Tue Oct 26, 2021 5:37 am

paradiddle wrote:
Sun Oct 24, 2021 4:43 pm
As long time PC users, I've had a macbook pro since 2016 and definitely prefer Core audio over Asio but not in terms of performance or stability but more than I can run more than 1 audio app at the same time easily as opposed to Asio(I know some have multi-client asio). It's definitely doable on pc with 3rd party routing apps but I hate fiddling with stuff anymore.
Yep, Multi-client ASIO is norm on the bigger names. Smaller dont seem to do that... even my 2001 PCI m-audio has it!
Soft Knees - Demoscene - Live 10 - Diva - Omnisphere - Slate Digital VSX - TDR - Kush Audio - Fabfilter - PA - Valhalla - Fuse - Pulsar - NI - OekSound etc...

ShawnG
KVRian
954 posts since 27 Apr, 2005

Post Fri Oct 29, 2021 9:26 pm

I Loved working in Logic. It still lives in my house in my daughter's studio on her iMac, Hate would definitely be too strong a word for how I feel about Mac OS or Apple as a whole, I've lost track of the number of iOS devices I've bought in the last 12 years. So don't count me among the haters per se. That said there are definite reasons why there's a Windows PC in my studio and no longer a MAC. Even still, I rarely get involved in the usual flamefests, it's a preference thing, and a control thing. I like making my PC, Apple doesn't let me do that, and music isn't the only thing I use my stuff for.

But as I check on what all my favorite developers are working on over the last number of years, it distresses me a great deal to find that usually they all have to be spending inordinate amounts of time patching whatever Apple just broke with their latest reinvention/update/whatever, and subsequently NOT working as much on things for everyone. Now sure, this sometimes happens with Windows, but not anywhere near the extent that Apple has to periodically hold the industry hostage with its proprietary environment. It's getting to the point where it seriously pisses me off, because it's affect is well beyond the users of the product. someone said earlier in the thread about apple users not needing to update the OS every time, and that's true, but developers can't ignore it. I'd love to hear some candid conversation from some of them concerning how they feel about constantly chasing that dragon.

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pdxindy
KVRAF
20494 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Post Sat Oct 30, 2021 6:05 am

ShawnG wrote:
Fri Oct 29, 2021 9:26 pm
But as I check on what all my favorite developers are working on over the last number of years, it distresses me a great deal to find that usually they all have to be spending inordinate amounts of time patching whatever Apple just broke with their latest reinvention/update/whatever, and subsequently NOT working as much on things for everyone. Now sure, this sometimes happens with Windows, but not anywhere near the extent that Apple has to periodically hold the industry hostage with its proprietary environment. It's getting to the point where it seriously pisses me off, because it's affect is well beyond the users of the product. someone said earlier in the thread about apple users not needing to update the OS every time, and that's true, but developers can't ignore it. I'd love to hear some candid conversation from some of them concerning how they feel about constantly chasing that dragon.
From my perspective, the end result of the changes over the past number of Mac OS updates is worth it. I will now have a laptop that is powerful enough to comfortably run my music studio and at the same time does not get so hot enough one could cook breakfast on it... or require frequent and loud fan noise.

That innovation is worth more to me than whatever developers might have come up with using the extra time. I already have all the synths, fx, daw capability one could ever need to fulfill my musical interest. I have great photo editing and graphic design software for my other interests. If none of the applications I use were ever updated with new capability again, that would not be any problem for my creative productivity. IMO, it was mobile hardware that was lacking.

So for me it is a positive situation. With the added bonus that I can run some cool iOS apps on my Mac now!

ShawnG
KVRian
954 posts since 27 Apr, 2005

Post Sat Oct 30, 2021 7:08 am

pdxindy wrote:
Sat Oct 30, 2021 6:05 am
ShawnG wrote:
Fri Oct 29, 2021 9:26 pm
But as I check on what all my favorite developers are working on over the last number of years, it distresses me a great deal to find that usually they all have to be spending inordinate amounts of time patching whatever Apple just broke with their latest reinvention/update/whatever, and subsequently NOT working as much on things for everyone. Now sure, this sometimes happens with Windows, but not anywhere near the extent that Apple has to periodically hold the industry hostage with its proprietary environment. It's getting to the point where it seriously pisses me off, because it's affect is well beyond the users of the product. someone said earlier in the thread about apple users not needing to update the OS every time, and that's true, but developers can't ignore it. I'd love to hear some candid conversation from some of them concerning how they feel about constantly chasing that dragon.
From my perspective, the end result of the changes over the past number of Mac OS updates is worth it. I will now have a laptop that is powerful enough to comfortably run my music studio and at the same time does not get so hot enough one could cook breakfast on it... or require frequent and loud fan noise.

That innovation is worth more to me than whatever developers might have come up with using the extra time. I already have all the synths, fx, daw capability one could ever need to fulfill my musical interest. I have great photo editing and graphic design software for my other interests. If none of the applications I use were ever updated with new capability again, that would not be any problem for my creative productivity. IMO, it was mobile hardware that was lacking.

So for me it is a positive situation. With the added bonus that I can run some cool iOS apps on my Mac now!
I’m not sure you’re picking up what I’m putting down. I don’t use a Mac anymore, so none of this wonderful ness you are proclaiming helps me one bit, but all the devs for the software I’m using have to constantly jump through hoops just to maintain their compatibility with one platform, impacting what they can do for everyone. Unless your reply was an meant to be a “screw you Shawn, I got mine”?

gaggle of hermits
KVRist
300 posts since 18 Jul, 2021

Post Sat Oct 30, 2021 7:37 am

you seem to be forgetting that mac users are paying for updates and presumably paying enough to convince enough developers not to quit making plugins for os x. even so, there are some that are windows-only, so if you're wedded to this idea you can go buy those and make yourself happy that someone isn't getting something you aren't.

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pdxindy
KVRAF
20494 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Post Sat Oct 30, 2021 7:50 am

ShawnG wrote:
Sat Oct 30, 2021 7:08 am
I’m not sure you’re picking up what I’m putting down. I don’t use a Mac anymore, so none of this wonderful ness you are proclaiming helps me one bit, but all the devs for the software I’m using have to constantly jump through hoops just to maintain their compatibility with one platform, impacting what they can do for everyone. Unless your reply was an meant to be a “screw you Shawn, I got mine”?
not screw you... but rather it is the way it is. Apple is not changing things to mess with you. There is a purpose to it and a benefit for Mac users who are their customers which has now come to fruition... that is, cooler, quieter, more powerful laptops with longer battery life.

The good news for you is, the changes are basically complete and the next OS updates will be less disruptive for developers. The switch to Apple Silicon is done in terms of the OS. Big Sur to Monterey has not caused any significant extra work for developers. The next one is unlikely to do so either. So your developers can get back to whatever it is you think you need.

sQeetz
KVRian
563 posts since 8 Jan, 2005

Post Sat Oct 30, 2021 10:58 am

pdxindy wrote:
Sat Oct 23, 2021 8:38 pm
Maybe 4 years from now Apple will drop Rosetta.
I hope so
MacBook Pro M1 . 16GB . 1TB . . Logic Pro……Renoise……Reason

ShawnG
KVRian
954 posts since 27 Apr, 2005

Post Sat Oct 30, 2021 11:04 am

pdxindy wrote:
Sat Oct 30, 2021 7:50 am
ShawnG wrote:
Sat Oct 30, 2021 7:08 am
I’m not sure you’re picking up what I’m putting down. I don’t use a Mac anymore, so none of this wonderful ness you are proclaiming helps me one bit, but all the devs for the software I’m using have to constantly jump through hoops just to maintain their compatibility with one platform, impacting what they can do for everyone. Unless your reply was an meant to be a “screw you Shawn, I got mine”?
not screw you... but rather it is the way it is. Apple is not changing things to mess with you. There is a purpose to it and a benefit for Mac users who are their customers which has now come to fruition... that is, cooler, quieter, more powerful laptops with longer battery life.

The good news for you is, the changes are basically complete and the next OS updates will be less disruptive for developers. The switch to Apple Silicon is done in terms of the OS. Big Sur to Monterey has not caused any significant extra work for developers. The next one is unlikely to do so either. So your developers can get back to whatever it is you think you need.
given that the Apple silicon is not anywhere near the first disruption of this sort, I have my doubts that its the last. This is the same with literally any OSX update. I do not think for a moment that Apple is doing anything to mess with me personally, but they do love doing aggressive compatibility breaking stuff and pushing hard on planned forced obsolescence of hardware and software formats. which slows development in this whole industry, because they are big enough to make everyone fall in line. Again I'm curious how devs feel about this. It's a legitimate concern. I understand that it is the way it is.

ShawnG
KVRian
954 posts since 27 Apr, 2005

Post Sat Oct 30, 2021 11:10 am

gaggle of hermits wrote:
Sat Oct 30, 2021 7:37 am
you seem to be forgetting that mac users are paying for updates and presumably paying enough to convince enough developers not to quit making plugins for os x. even so, there are some that are windows-only, so if you're wedded to this idea you can go buy those and make yourself happy that someone isn't getting something you aren't.
I'm not upset that someone is getting something I'm not. There's any number of benefits to having a Mac that I am happy to let others enjoy, just so I don't have to deal with the drawbacks of having a Mac. No issue there. I'm upset that the thousand pound gorilla that is Apple is forcing a stagnation of a whole industry because they are constantly breaking compatibility with stuff every time they do an OS update. I'm not even suggesting that they are doing this on purpose. but it's a real thing.

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pdxindy
KVRAF
20494 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Post Sat Oct 30, 2021 1:39 pm

ShawnG wrote:
Sat Oct 30, 2021 11:10 am
I'm upset that the thousand pound gorilla that is Apple is forcing a stagnation of a whole industry because they are constantly breaking compatibility with stuff every time they do an OS update.
You think the industry is stagnated? Seems to me we have never had it so good for synthesis and fx... both software and hardware.

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