having fun with kvr developers

DSP, Plug-in and Host development discussion.
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syntonica
KVRian
1138 posts since 25 Sep, 2014 from Specific Northwest

Post Mon Oct 25, 2021 10:35 am

xoxos wrote:
Mon Oct 25, 2021 8:44 am
ms have consumed 50g of my 60g hard drive,
This is precisely why I dumped VS. When my initial year was up and I had to login to my MS account again, I couldn't remember what garbage password I had used and I was fed up with all the weirdness anyway. I just deleted all things VS.

I tried installing clang to match my Mac, but I could never get the Windows headers to wor properly, so I ended up with a version of the gnu c++ compiler (MinGW). The whole install was under 1Gb. It was a pain to get up and running, but despite its quirks, I do like gnu far better.

Anyway, when you are comfortable enough, there are other options out there... Until then, just keep plugging away! Google is your friend for navigating the often murky MS waters of c++.

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quikquak
KVRian
788 posts since 6 Aug, 2005 from England

Post Tue Oct 26, 2021 4:57 am

My current VS2019 installation takes up less than 4Gb. I only need C++ development stuff. ( you can add things by modifying it later, if you wish )

You may also need to install the Windows SDK:
https://developer.microsoft.com/en-us/w ... ndows-sdk/
(Note it is not part of VS studio, and won't get deleted if you uninstall Visual Studio)

You can then Download Juce, of course, then run the Projucer and select a demo, add VS2019 as an Exporter - then you're off!!!
https://juce.com/get-juce/download 😁

I would also personally recommend installing Visual Assist, but it'll be a demo until you pay $129 for the license - it's easily worth it IMO.
https://www.wholetomato.com/downloads
Last edited by quikquak on Tue Oct 26, 2021 9:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

rafa1981
KVRian
591 posts since 4 Jan, 2007

Post Tue Oct 26, 2021 5:35 am

I think that if you install clang-cl you are at least at 15GB. The install is also slow.

I couldn't stand the bloat myself, so in my case I just develop the Windows versions from Linux. There is a tool called "xwin" that downloads the Win SDK on Linux, so no mingw required. But mine is a Linux + CMake + code editor based workflow, so not suitable for the OP.

DaveClark
KVRist
287 posts since 8 May, 2007

Post Tue Oct 26, 2021 9:16 am

Double post --- edited below
Last edited by DaveClark on Tue Oct 26, 2021 2:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

DaveClark
KVRist
287 posts since 8 May, 2007

Post Tue Oct 26, 2021 9:16 am

rafa1981 wrote:
Tue Oct 26, 2021 5:35 am
... so in my case I just develop the Windows versions from Linux. ...
I avoided some bloat in the past by developing DSP code using Windows Subsystem for Linux (WSL, WSL 2.0), but all GNU stuff. This allowed me to develop numerous dedicated projects in a very small space. It also allows for use of various scripting languages for code development, data production and slicing and dicing of test data, etc. again in a very small space and without all of the overhead of Visual Studio which can really slow things down for these simple low-level projects. The modules can then be copied into a VS project and assembled into a plugin (or a library) when it's finally necessary to create a plugin with GUI.

For those who are unfamiliar with Linux/GNU, the philosophy is use of a collection of small tools rather than using a single gigantic, one-stop, one-size-fits-all bloated pig of a tool. Both have their advantages. I like using the former in the early stages and the latter in the later stages when the projects get really large. Also, when using a mix of x64 assembly and C++, I've found that it's easier to use the latter.

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quikquak
KVRian
788 posts since 6 Aug, 2005 from England

Post Tue Oct 26, 2021 9:46 am

"the overhead of Visual Studio" - what overhead? VS2019 Community loads up fast and compiles quick. Just install what you need...

Keep it simple, I didn't need the Unity stuff in the image, so I deleted that as well. The install is still around 3.8 Gb

Image
Last edited by quikquak on Tue Oct 26, 2021 9:58 am, edited 2 times in total.

mystran
KVRAF
6591 posts since 12 Feb, 2006 from Helsinki, Finland

Post Tue Oct 26, 2021 9:54 am

I just use clang with GNU make 'cos Intellisense is for beginners. ;)

ps. Well, I'm joking, although I do use clang+make even on Windows for portability reasons, but like... I've got maybe 3-4 versions of MSVC installed and never thought it was particularly bloated for what it does.
Last edited by mystran on Tue Oct 26, 2021 9:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
Preferred pronouns would be "it/it" because according to this country, I'm a piece of human trash.

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quikquak
KVRian
788 posts since 6 Aug, 2005 from England

Post Tue Oct 26, 2021 9:56 am

*edit*
Nevermind

rafa1981
KVRian
591 posts since 4 Jan, 2007

Post Tue Oct 26, 2021 11:26 am

DaveClark wrote:
Tue Oct 26, 2021 9:16 am
For those who are unfamiliar with Linux/GNU, the philosophy is use of a collection of small tools rather than using a single gigantic, one-stop, one-size-fits-all bloated pig of a tool. Both have their advantages. I like using the former in the early stages and the latter in the later stages when the projects get really large. Also, when using a mix of x64 assembly and C++, I've found that it's easier to use the latter.
Whatever suits the individual. The difference between a good code editor and an IDE is narrow nowadays.

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DJ Warmonger
KVRAF
4312 posts since 7 Jun, 2012 from Warsaw

Post Tue Oct 26, 2021 11:36 am

rafa1981 wrote:
Tue Oct 26, 2021 11:26 am
DaveClark wrote:
Tue Oct 26, 2021 9:16 am
For those who are unfamiliar with Linux/GNU, the philosophy is use of a collection of small tools rather than using a single gigantic, one-stop, one-size-fits-all bloated pig of a tool. Both have their advantages. I like using the former in the early stages and the latter in the later stages when the projects get really large. Also, when using a mix of x64 assembly and C++, I've found that it's easier to use the latter.
Whatever suits the individual. The difference between a good code editor and an IDE is narrow nowadays.
Either way, everyone needs to configure it on their own. Adding scripts, features and automation eventually makes even simple enviroment grow ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Tricky-Loops wrote: (...)someone like Armin van Buuren who claims to make a track in half an hour and all his songs sound somewhat boring(...)

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quikquak
KVRian
788 posts since 6 Aug, 2005 from England

Post Tue Oct 26, 2021 12:17 pm

Just incidentally, talking of editing, using shift-alt-cursor keys in VS is really useful. Copy/pasting columns, and multiline typing really speeds things up for me. You used to be able to select columns in Xcode as well, but they removed it a while ago.

DaveClark
KVRist
287 posts since 8 May, 2007

Post Tue Oct 26, 2021 4:14 pm

quikquak wrote:
Tue Oct 26, 2021 9:46 am
"the overhead of Visual Studio" - what overhead? VS2019 Community loads up fast and compiles quick.
We each have our own experiences, resulting in different opinions; I'm just relating my own experience with GUI-based VS to g++ under Linux / GNU for smaller projects that are to become parts of larger projects, not trying to convince anyone else to follow any particular course of action. Having to "load up" a GUI-based thing is annoying to me for small projects. Having to say what kind of project I want for small projects is annoying, etc.
mystran wrote:
Tue Oct 26, 2021 9:54 am
Intellisense is for beginners. ;)

ps. Well, I'm joking
Again, we each have our own experiences, and based on my own experience, I believe that Intellisense is also useful for programmers who have written so much code so long ago that they don't really remember all of the details of stuff that they are modifying in big projects where things are Zeus knows where. But it can also be really annoying and interfere with getting things done quickly because it can be slower than molasses and misleading while it catches up. (This is also what I consider to be the "overhead" of Visual Studio.) If one is really active with a project that one knows inside-out, then it can easily be nothing but a nuisance.
rafa1981 wrote:
Tue Oct 26, 2021 11:26 am
Whatever suits the individual. The difference between a good code editor and an IDE is narrow nowadays.
I'm not referring to a code editor versus an IDE. I'm talking about vim and g++ at the command line versus an IDE. But indeed, whatever suits the individual, I agree.

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syntonica
KVRian
1138 posts since 25 Sep, 2014 from Specific Northwest

Post Tue Oct 26, 2021 7:35 pm

DaveClark wrote:
Tue Oct 26, 2021 4:14 pm
I'm talking about vim and g++ at the command line versus an IDE.
Masochist! :D

I actually was using gvim for a bit, but after the third different form of regex in scripting, I rage quit. I had quite the mini-IDE built up, however, and it was quite nice working in gvim once I got used to the modal way of thinking.

Regarding MSVC, I hate the editor and the ~10Gb of Windows junk that had to be installed. But mostly, I really just disliked the compiler since I was used to the Gnu/clang way.

mystran
KVRAF
6591 posts since 12 Feb, 2006 from Helsinki, Finland

Post Tue Oct 26, 2021 8:37 pm

DaveClark wrote:
Tue Oct 26, 2021 4:14 pm
Again, we each have our own experiences, and based on my own experience, I believe that Intellisense is also useful for programmers who have written so much code so long ago that they don't really remember all of the details of stuff that they are modifying in big projects where things are Zeus knows where. But it can also be really annoying and interfere with getting things done quickly because it can be slower than molasses and misleading while it catches up.
It's a double edged sword. While I've used Intellisense for years, at some point I figured I might just as well try writing code "the old way" and ... it turns out I find myself to be more productive, when I'm not spending time getting distracted by debugging why Intellisense stopped working again, or why there's an error-wiggle in the middle of my code even though it compiles clean.. or why it's coloring a type as a variable or vice versa or some .. random thing that's completely irrelevant for what I'm trying to do..

If I could have a tool like Intellisense that (1) just worked 100% of the time and (2) never did anything without an explicit hotkey, then.. sure.. but having a tool only work about 90% of the time and throw all kinds of noise in front of you just isn't for me. It took me some 15 years(?) of trying to use such tools, but .. enough is enough. I've gone to very barebones syntax highlight too, the usual schemes are just too noisy.

Pretty much the only feature I ever miss is "go to definition" .. but like whatever, half the time it doesn't go into the right place anyway and I can search.
Preferred pronouns would be "it/it" because according to this country, I'm a piece of human trash.

camsr
KVRAF
7111 posts since 17 Feb, 2005

Post Tue Oct 26, 2021 9:44 pm

Codeblocks is a very capable IDE but I rather use it for the general editing features and autocompletion, and go-to-definition, rather than use it for it's build system. Lightweight compared to that visual studio cludge. :)

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