Paragon from NUGEN Audio has arrived

VST, AU, etc. plug-in Virtual Effects discussion
magicmusic
KVRian
1316 posts since 11 Nov, 2013

Post Sat Nov 06, 2021 12:53 pm

the first reverbs have stereo input but they mix both stereo channels to mono to use less CPU power, reverb them and output is stereo. try a signal on full left and hear the reverb signal only. if reverb come from middle, then it is really a mono stereo reverb
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c_voltage
KVRAF
2056 posts since 16 May, 2004 from Soviet Union

Post Sat Nov 06, 2021 2:16 pm

magicmusic wrote:
Sat Nov 06, 2021 12:53 pm
try a signal on full left and hear the reverb signal only.
That exactly what i did in Bidule - connect tone generator to L only (Paragon ST in default, 100% mix state) - i hear reverb at L side.
And next the same with R only, and result the same.

Added: There is else parameter "Crosstalk" (70% by default), which actually does slightly mix between channels (even if use only one of inputs). So, i tried to set it to zero, and got 100% of left side only reverb.

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c_voltage
KVRAF
2056 posts since 16 May, 2004 from Soviet Union

Post Sat Nov 06, 2021 2:35 pm

Also, perhaps need clarify - saying about "mono source" (being use ST in normal daw like Studio One), i meant normal stereo track with "double mono" wav.

And btw tried just now to use it at really mono track, UI is become changed:
parag_st_mono.png
As see, some stereo related things automatically disappeared (Stereo Width and Crosstalk).
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magicmusic
KVRian
1316 posts since 11 Nov, 2013

Post Sun Nov 07, 2021 1:30 am

yes the reverb come with set of crosstalk to 0 from left side. but this is not real stereo reverb. on real stereo reverbs when you have only left input the reverb come when crosstalk is 0% also from right speaker because every room do refelections on right side too. i test it now more. it really is no real stereo reverb. you can hear it when set mix to 100%. so only reverb signal can hear. set crosstalk to 0 and listen what you hear on right speaker. I hear nothing.

A problem of this reverb is also to compare output with dry when use as insert. when mix more wet it reduce dry volume. there is a trim slider. but this trim slider increase or decrease only wet signal. normaly this trim should change output of dry and wet signal when use as insert so can set compare volume to same.
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c_voltage
KVRAF
2056 posts since 16 May, 2004 from Soviet Union

Post Sun Nov 07, 2021 3:41 am

In my understanding, when reverb is "stereo" (but I may be wrong in terms) - it's get information from each channel separately, and respectively have ability to represent L and R information as distinguishable by panorama inside reverberation result, nothing more. And that what Paragon ST does (until to full L\R separation in reverb result, depending of crosstalk parameter position).

Ie this is clearly not just a mono-to-stereo reverb, which seems to me to be the original question.

What regards Mix\Trim combo, yes, found too, a bit specific behavior (in relation to the dry). Unusual, but not critical as for me (can say correctable). Because of this, i even had feel that perhaps was meant to be used in wet mode for the most part (maybe there is some sense in this, idk).

magicmusic
KVRian
1316 posts since 11 Nov, 2013

Post Sun Nov 07, 2021 7:32 am

what the paragon st do is not called true stereo. you can read more about true stereo reverb and diffrences. for true stereo you need 4 impulse responses.

here they explain that in liquidsoniq reverbs

https://www.liquidsonics.com/knowledge- ... opologies/

the paragon st is called paralell stereo. on a true stereo reverb when input come from full left. the right channel output reverb too in same was as when in church the organ stand on left wall and you stand in the middle and what your ears hear from right side
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c_voltage
KVRAF
2056 posts since 16 May, 2004 from Soviet Union

Post Sun Nov 07, 2021 8:50 am

Just in case - I didn’t try to claim that this is "true" stereo type reverb.
My replies dealt specifically just with these points:
magicmusic wrote:
Sat Nov 06, 2021 10:52 am
maybe they mean that this is only a version that process mono input to stereo reverb output. see the news text
NUGEN Audio releases Paragon ST – Mono/Stereo Version of its convolution reverb
and to have stereo need buy the big version
magicmusic wrote:
Sat Nov 06, 2021 12:53 pm
the first reverbs have stereo input but they mix both stereo channels to mono to use less CPU power, reverb them and output is stereo. try a signal on full left and hear the reverb signal only. if reverb come from middle, then it is really a mono stereo reverb
So, "Parallel Stereo" will be pretty ok. 8)

Although, yes, I have to admit that at least refreshed what it means (or at least what is sometimes implied) by the term of.
Last edited by c_voltage on Sun Nov 07, 2021 9:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

briefcasemanx
KVRian
1046 posts since 28 Jul, 2006

Post Sun Nov 07, 2021 9:03 am

Wow, $600. Huh.

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c_voltage
KVRAF
2056 posts since 16 May, 2004 from Soviet Union

Post Sun Nov 07, 2021 9:21 am

briefcasemanx wrote:
Sun Nov 07, 2021 9:03 am
Wow, $600. Huh.
Stereo (not true stereo) version costs 100+ at JRR, during intro sale.

briefcasemanx
KVRian
1046 posts since 28 Jul, 2006

Post Sun Nov 07, 2021 9:40 am

c_voltage wrote:
Sun Nov 07, 2021 9:21 am
briefcasemanx wrote:
Sun Nov 07, 2021 9:03 am
Wow, $600. Huh.
Stereo (not true stereo) version costs 100+ at JRR, during intro sale.
Oh, that's better.

magicmusic
KVRian
1316 posts since 11 Nov, 2013

Post Sun Nov 07, 2021 11:58 am

The 600$ version can work with upto 7.1.2 channels
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c_voltage
KVRAF
2056 posts since 16 May, 2004 from Soviet Union

Post Sun Nov 07, 2021 1:46 pm

Omg, decided to trialed big version (for check to described panorama offsets issue), observed tah it's exactly the same installer as ST, so do not need to install again. Ie if he sees license of non-ST in iLok, he automatically opens currently plugin in daw as non-ST. But respectively as multichannel or not - depends of daw. For example in Studio One it's the same stereo version but with removed ST letters in UI.
So, did check, respectively the same panorama behavior absolutely.

Then, decided to check it in multichannel state (thru imitate resp. environment in Bidule), and found problem - despite big license this is still show in Bidule only the same in\out one stereo pair exactly as was before. Damn, that bummer.
Or this is issue too (of plug, or bidule, idk), or Paragon support only certain daws for unfold his additional outputs.
It is logical to assume the second variant, because there is no such problem in Bidule with many other multichannel plugins (like Liquidsonic CRP for example). Therefore, can probably forget about it.

BTW there is upgrade patch from ST, but costs 299 lol. Though I don't know if Nugen make some day sale for upgrades, had not track this vendor before.

magicmusic
KVRian
1316 posts since 11 Nov, 2013

Post Mon Nov 08, 2021 12:59 am

when the st letter is remove then seem work as full version. If you have reaper (have a always working demo) this have real multichannel support. I have in the past a 5.1 receiver and speakers. only what work with multichannel reverbs was reaper. studio one not. and with cubase only the largest version. it is possible that the paragon do also not on 5.1 do true stereo and so do no true surround
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c_voltage
KVRAF
2056 posts since 16 May, 2004 from Soviet Union

Post Mon Nov 08, 2021 5:50 am

Ok will check it Reaper later a bit.

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