Are VST3 widely adopted now?

[ians]

I seem to have nothing but bother with VST3s. Both Gig Performer (crashes) & Freestyle (don't get me started!) can't seem to handle them well

[kinwie]

I read one post then next one, and another one and next another one and it keep getting insteresting about 'this issue'.
It's not the plugin format that I use, but I just posted here as a supporter for the great devs in here.
Thanks for the Firebird, thanks for the Podolski, thanks for the Zampler, etc...
Keep the spirit on!!

[deskew]

I seem to have nothing but bother with VST3s. Both Gig Performer (crashes)

What version of Gig Performer, what OS, what plugin?

We have tons of people using VST3 plugins - other than the occasional crash (always due to the plugin so far), we've seen no issues that are due to Gig Performer itself.

[ians]

I seem to have nothing but bother with VST3s. Both Gig Performer (crashes)

What version of Gig Performer, what OS, what plugin?

We have tons of people using VST3 plugins - other than the occasional crash (always due to the plugin so far), we've seen no issues that are due to Gig Performer itself.

Version 4.1.5. Can't remember what plugins, but more than one. I just avoid them now. There are all the other flavours that work, so it's not an issue really. Not blaming GP. I've had all sorts of bother since Big Sur with plugins & hosts that are supposed to be compatible, but VST3s seem particularly troublesome.

Thanks for asking

[deskew]

Hmm, if you're on a Mac and you get a crash, the crash report should show exactly what plugin is failing (or Gig Performer if it IS a GP issue). I'm still on 10.14 for my actual live performance shows but I do use Big Sur (actually now I'm on Monterey) in my office for development and I haven't seen any VST3 issues so far. But if there's an issue that's on our side we certainly want to know about it.

[K82]

I'm just a amateur and I tried vst3 couple of times but I wont use it again . Too much trouble . I rather use a older system in the future that supports vst2.x than use vst3. And U-he , much love to you all how you do things and how you try things .

[mystran]

Hmm, if you're on a Mac and you get a crash, the crash report should show exactly what plugin is failing (or Gig Performer if it IS a GP issue). I'm still on 10.14 for my actual live performance shows but I do use Big Sur (actually now I'm on Monterey) in my office for development and I haven't seen any VST3 issues so far. But if there's an issue that's on our side we certainly want to know about it.

Crash report will tell you where the crash happens, but it won't tell you what caused it. It is often the case that the actual crash site is not the location of a bug, but rather it's just crashing because of invalid data and/or heap corruption and the actual problem might be pretty much anywhere.

[Markus Krause]

Dear Steinberg-team...

I doubt they are here...

As usual you just came here to disturb the thread.
and you are wrong.
I discussed with Arne in this thread. He's a developer for Steinberg since many years. He is responsible for large parts of the VST SDK

[deskew]

Crash report will tell you where the crash happens, but it won't tell you what caused it. It is often the case that the actual crash site is not the location of a bug, but rather it's just crashing because of invalid data and/or heap corruption and the actual problem might be pretty much anywhere.

Well, I don't know what kind of crash reports you deal with but the crash reports that we get are full of useful information to begin chasing down a problem. Information such as the module (library) in which the crash occurred, along with the complete stack trace, provides significant clues as to what happened. We can generally tell immediately whether the crash is in the plugin or in the main application. If it's the former we can be pretty sure (it's never 100% but extremely likely) that the bug is in the plugin because we know from experience that our calls into the plugin via the SDK are themselves unlikely to be the issue.

The report, along with symbolification of the debug symbol tables, lets us see the actual call hierarchy in the source code. That information, along with experience with the product lets one begin to form a hypothesis as to what MIGHT be the most likely cause from which one can create tests to try and reproduce the issue. Often, the actual cause it is often immediately obvious from looking at the source code at each line of the stack trace.

These days, with language and/or library features such as better dynamic memory management (e.g. the C++ unique_ptr mechanism) and the ability to do run time checking of array bounds (for example), heap corruption, though never impossible, is much less likely.

Obviously there are no guarantees but it's an extremely valuable first step.

[mystran]

Well, I don't know what kind of crash reports you deal with but the crash reports that we get are full of useful information to begin chasing down a problem.

I don't have a whole lot of sample size, 'cos I agressively valgrind stuff before I release anything, but just about all of those I can remember were non-trivial interop issues where stack trace was basically useless.

[syntonica]

I'd say about 1 in 100 crash reports start with the host rather than my plugins. Those where the host initiates the report, the stack trace goes back to where my plugins sent garbage.

The only blow up I've had that wasn't my fault was due to the VST2 SDK. It takes it upon itself to release the editor object for you, despite not creating it. Very naughty behavior, indeed!

[softdevca]

Well, it was very frustrating, but it wasn't the end of the world. I don't think anyone at Steinberg is a bad person or deliberately wants to be overly competitive. Let's not exaggerate and and insinuate a conspiracy of giant proportions.

Wonderfully healthy and productive attitude Urs.

[ians]

Hmm, if you're on a Mac and you get a crash, the crash report should show exactly what plugin is failing (or Gig Performer if it IS a GP issue). I'm still on 10.14 for my actual live performance shows but I do use Big Sur (actually now I'm on Monterey) in my office for development and I haven't seen any VST3 issues so far. But if there's an issue that's on our side we certainly want to know about it.

I'll send you a crash report next time I get one. I don't use Gig Performer live but for seeing up FX chains for guitar & synths then record the output, so it's not critical for me.

[Markus Krause]

of course, what was I thinking..... its completely natural to address the originators here...they all skim thru kvr all day to read ideas from tiny companies about how to run their company...

As usual you post garbage-comments into threads to create confusion and quarrels and get attention.
You're not a developer and obviously you also didn't read the thread.

I intiatially did not address Steinberg here. Arne Scheffler (a developer of Steinberg's VST SDK) came here and posted to one of my comments. Obviously my 'tiny company' is important enough...

I will not further answer to your stupid comments, since you just came here to start a dispute - as usual. That's why I added you to my ignore list

[AnX]

of course, what was I thinking..... its completely natural to address the originators here...they all skim thru kvr all day to read ideas from tiny companies about how to run their company...

As usual you post garbage-comments into threads to create confusion and quarrels and get attention.
You're not a developer and obviously you also didn't read the thread.

I intiatially did not address Steinberg here. Arne Scheffler (a developer of Steinberg's VST SDK) came here and posted to one of my comments. Obviously my 'tiny company' is important enough...

I will not further answer to your stupid comments, since you just came here to start a dispute - as usual. That's why I added you to my ignore list

Yes, I see you made quite an impression on him

Dear Arne,

you're right with the midi channel. But all the other problems do remain and are ignored by Steinberg (you?).
It would have helped us devs if you provided a proper documentation before 2018.

I am also wondering why Steinberg/you continously ignore the feedback from developers and customers.

I'm unsure why you have such a hate against me personally. But OK, this is the internet...

But it's just wrong that Steinberg ignores developers that can explain their issues in a way that is not a rant.
There were many additions to the SDK directly from developer feedback. As an example is the LegacyMIDICCOutEvent or IMidiLearn. And also the license was changed because of feedback.

And just to make it clear, your other technical claims that VST3 would not support MIDI program change or that you have to expose dozens of parameters to support MIDI CC is just the result of not reading the documentation properly.
And regarding MIDI 2.0, there's no DAW or anyone supporting it yet, so don't give the impression that this is a problem of VST3. The way VST3 will handle this is by far the most efficient way. Only the hosts need to be updated. VST3 Plug-ins will work out of the box with most of the new features. Sure if you don't support Note Expression before, MIDI 2's per note controller will not magically work in your plugin.

And please, don't make "me = Steinberg". There are so many good developers @ Steinberg it is unfair that you give me all the credit.