Mac vs PC (split from "Apple announce...")

Configure and optimize you computer for Audio.
KVRist
391 posts since 5 Feb, 2012

Post Wed Nov 17, 2021 11:41 pm

J-Aro wrote:
Wed Nov 17, 2021 8:23 pm
topaz wrote:
Sun Nov 14, 2021 10:36 am
Thanks Jim. You are instrumental in helping me filter fact from opinion. Thank you 8)
Jim Roseberry wrote:
Sun Nov 14, 2021 10:23 am
topaz wrote:
Sun Nov 14, 2021 4:24 am
A bit more fuel for the fire :-)

Latency, I’m reading that windows struggles with latency due to core audio and windows Asio drivers.

I use a steinberg urc44-c on Mac OS and can easy run at 128 latency from pre to post.

Any comments on that ?
With the right configuration, Win10 can yield extremely low round-trip latency.

Antelope Orion Studio Synergy Core (connected via Thunderbolt) set to 96k using a 32-sample ASIO buffer size yields 1ms total round-trip latency.
Obviously the machine has to be able to keep up with the load.
Both 5950x and 12900k can run Helix Native (substantial patch) completely glitch-free at these settings.
Hey, just wondering what you paired the 12900k with. What's your full Build Spec?

Also, have you run into any issues with the P Cores and E cores having different clock speeds making music at regular and low buffer sizes?

Any other things you like about it?
THIS is why I use a Mac. :)
Matrix-1000, MicroWave with Access programmer, MicroWave II, MKS-50 with MidiClub programmer, MKS-70, MKS-80 with Kiwi Patch Editor, Nord 2 Rack, Nord 3 Rack, Prophet REV2 module, Pulse 2, Shruthi, Virus TI

KVRer
20 posts since 17 Aug, 2021

Post Thu Nov 18, 2021 12:06 am

Gadget Fiend wrote:
Wed Nov 17, 2021 11:41 pm
J-Aro wrote:
Wed Nov 17, 2021 8:23 pm
topaz wrote:
Sun Nov 14, 2021 10:36 am
Thanks Jim. You are instrumental in helping me filter fact from opinion. Thank you 8)
Jim Roseberry wrote:
Sun Nov 14, 2021 10:23 am
topaz wrote:
Sun Nov 14, 2021 4:24 am
A bit more fuel for the fire :-)

Latency, I’m reading that windows struggles with latency due to core audio and windows Asio drivers.

I use a steinberg urc44-c on Mac OS and can easy run at 128 latency from pre to post.

Any comments on that ?
With the right configuration, Win10 can yield extremely low round-trip latency.

Antelope Orion Studio Synergy Core (connected via Thunderbolt) set to 96k using a 32-sample ASIO buffer size yields 1ms total round-trip latency.
Obviously the machine has to be able to keep up with the load.
Both 5950x and 12900k can run Helix Native (substantial patch) completely glitch-free at these settings.
Hey, just wondering what you paired the 12900k with. What's your full Build Spec?

Also, have you run into any issues with the P Cores and E cores having different clock speeds making music at regular and low buffer sizes?

Any other things you like about it?
THIS is why I use a Mac. :)
I'm intrigued with the Macbook Pro max, but I prefer the backward compatibility of Windows. For example, whenever new mac silicon or updates come, music software takes quite a while to run natively on it. By the time they do, Macs next iteration is out or at least have been announced with a date.
Also, the fact that older software like Ableton live 9 and other vsts weren't even comparable with catalina, It shows that developers don't even like the constant rehaul with updating their products for mac. Whereas on windows you can pretty much run most if not all versions of most things.

For portability, A Mac pro m1 max is ideal for me.. But I'm looking for a desktop right now.

KVRer
20 posts since 17 Aug, 2021

Post Thu Nov 18, 2021 12:08 am

Jim Roseberry wrote:
Sun Nov 14, 2021 12:34 pm
soshomusic wrote:
Sun Nov 14, 2021 11:31 am
Hello , would the 5900x be able to do the same ? 12900k looks great , but it seems there is no RAM for it available ,yet (over here). Thanks in advance
Yes, the 5950x and 5900x are also great performers at ultra low audio latency.
Prior to the Ryzen 5xxx Vermeer series, Ryzen's Achilles Heel was low latency performance.
Hey, just wondering what you paired the 12900k with. What's your full Build Spec?

Also, have you run into any issues with the P Cores and E cores having different clock speeds making music at regular and low buffer sizes?

Any other things you like about it?

KVRer
20 posts since 17 Aug, 2021

Post Thu Nov 18, 2021 12:09 am

I just noticed I quoted someone else the first time so am taking an older message from the poster I was trying to ask. Sorry for the confusion.

KVRian
536 posts since 9 May, 2005

Post Thu Nov 18, 2021 3:10 am

J-Aro wrote:
Thu Nov 18, 2021 12:08 am
Also, have you run into any issues with the P Cores and E cores having different clock speeds making music at regular and low buffer sizes?

Any other things you like about it?
My company has been building DAWs professionally for going on 30 years.
We test all the major hardware combinations.

No problems at all with P Cores and E Cores.
As a point of reference:
Orion Studio Synergy Core (connected via Thunderbolt) at 96k using 32-sample ASIO buffer size.
That yields 1ms total round-trip latency.
Nuendo 11 can run Helix Native (zero glitches) at these settings.
If you know the Steinberg DAWs, they're not the most CPU efficient.

The 12900k bests the 5950x in both multi-threaded and single-threaded performance.
DDR5 is part of the reason.
This holiday season, it's going to be hard to find DDR5.
Thread Director in Windows 11 will further improve performance.
Jim Roseberry
Purrrfect Audio
www.studiocat.com
jim@studiocat.com

User avatar
KVRAF
4554 posts since 15 Jul, 2001 from Holmfirth, West Yorkshire, U.K

Post Thu Nov 18, 2021 10:33 am

I've pulled the trigger on an intel PC build.

I switched to Mac December 2006

A change is good, let's see if this one is. ;-)

Ordered a big old case

Image

To compensate for this :-)

Image
Last edited by topaz on Sun Nov 21, 2021 3:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

KVRer
20 posts since 17 Aug, 2021

Post Thu Nov 18, 2021 12:13 pm

Jim Roseberry wrote:
Thu Nov 18, 2021 3:10 am
J-Aro wrote:
Thu Nov 18, 2021 12:08 am
Also, have you run into any issues with the P Cores and E cores having different clock speeds making music at regular and low buffer sizes?

Any other things you like about it?
My company has been building DAWs professionally for going on 30 years.
We test all the major hardware combinations.

No problems at all with P Cores and E Cores.
As a point of reference:
Orion Studio Synergy Core (connected via Thunderbolt) at 96k using 32-sample ASIO buffer size.
That yields 1ms total round-trip latency.
Nuendo 11 can run Helix Native (zero glitches) at these settings.
If you know the Steinberg DAWs, they're not the most CPU efficient.

The 12900k bests the 5950x in both multi-threaded and single-threaded performance.
DDR5 is part of the reason.
This holiday season, it's going to be hard to find DDR5.
Thread Director in Windows 11 will further improve performance.
Thanks very much for the info.

I'm also just wondering what are the other parts you are using in the PC. Like cooler, case, ram, etc. The PC hardware.

KVRer
3 posts since 21 Sep, 2012

Post Thu Nov 18, 2021 3:02 pm

AUTO-ADMIN: Non-MP3, WAV, OGG, SoundCloud, YouTube, Vimeo, Twitter and Facebook links in this post have been protected automatically. Once the member reaches 5 posts the links will function as normal.
Just put in an order for an i9-12900K rig, retired the old 2013 MacBook Pro Retina. Looking forward to the new system. Having an RME HDSPe RayDAT put in too. Happy to report back when it arrives.

https://www.scan.co.uk/3xs/shared/c9a31 ... =copypaste (https://www.scan.co.uk/3xs/shared/c9a318d5-ef0b-45e0-ab60-5ec09eea3288?utm_source=3xsconfigshare&utm_medium=link&utm_campaign=copypaste)

KVRer
20 posts since 17 Aug, 2021

Post Thu Nov 18, 2021 9:38 pm

sentient.minority wrote:
Thu Nov 18, 2021 3:02 pm
Just put in an order for an i9-12900K rig, retired the old 2013 MacBook Pro Retina. Looking forward to the new system. Having an RME HDSPe RayDAT put in too. Happy to report back when it arrives.

https://www.scan.co.uk/3xs/shared/c9a31 ... =copypaste
That's cool man, and thank you. RME is also great. Hope it all goes very well for you 👍. That's a nice looking build.

KVRist
391 posts since 5 Feb, 2012

Post Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:15 am

sentient.minority wrote:
Thu Nov 18, 2021 3:02 pm
Just put in an order for an i9-12900K rig, retired the old 2013 MacBook Pro Retina. Looking forward to the new system. Having an RME HDSPe RayDAT put in too. Happy to report back when it arrives.
My RME RayDAT was a nightmare on my custom built PC (going back to Windows 7). I would get HARD crashes every 4 to 6 months that would bring my entire system down. I would have to do a clean install of the OS and hundreds of plugins. It was sheer insanity.

I now have an (aging) 2015 MacBook Pro with a MOTU 16A Thunderbolt interface. This system has NEVER crashed on me (though there have been times when I have needed to reboot because my Cubase performance meter was pinning).
Matrix-1000, MicroWave with Access programmer, MicroWave II, MKS-50 with MidiClub programmer, MKS-70, MKS-80 with Kiwi Patch Editor, Nord 2 Rack, Nord 3 Rack, Prophet REV2 module, Pulse 2, Shruthi, Virus TI

KVRAF
1777 posts since 28 Mar, 2007

Post Thu Nov 25, 2021 6:15 am

Gadget Fiend wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:15 am
sentient.minority wrote:
Thu Nov 18, 2021 3:02 pm
Just put in an order for an i9-12900K rig, retired the old 2013 MacBook Pro Retina. Looking forward to the new system. Having an RME HDSPe RayDAT put in too. Happy to report back when it arrives.
My RME RayDAT was a nightmare on my custom built PC (going back to Windows 7). I would get HARD crashes every 4 to 6 months that would bring my entire system down. I would have to do a clean install of the OS and hundreds of plugins. It was sheer insanity.

I now have an (aging) 2015 MacBook Pro with a MOTU 16A Thunderbolt interface. This system has NEVER crashed on me (though there have been times when I have needed to reboot because my Cubase performance meter was pinning).
I have just done a clean install of Win 11, and installed all the most basic plugins I will actually use. I have a Cubase dongle and hardware i-lok so thats quite a simple install. Then I install just Native Access - the IK multimedia manager and stuff like that. The very next essential job is to image this basic setup without downloading any plugins. If windows ever crashes, its just a quick job to re-image the disc.

OSX is built on UNIX so its inherently more stable, although Microsoft are steadily improving in that regard. So if stability is important to a person, then by all means pay the Apple tax and enjoy a stress free life. The downside to Macs is the cost and lack of upgrade-ability. The upside to Windows is the lower cost and upgrade-ability. Life is swings and roundabouts.

KVRian
943 posts since 27 Apr, 2005

Post Thu Nov 25, 2021 7:58 am

"stress free life" is not what I remember from Mac ownership... the sources of stress are different, but less fixable.

twenty years ago most PC's were unstable AF, that argument these days is severely oversold. my PC crashes about as often as my Mac did, which is to say almost never.

KVRAF
1777 posts since 28 Mar, 2007

Post Thu Nov 25, 2021 8:11 am

ShawnG wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 7:58 am
"stress free life" is not what I remember from Mac ownership... the sources of stress are different, but less fixable.

twenty years ago most PC's were unstable AF, that argument these days is severely oversold. my PC crashes about as often as my Mac did, which is to say almost never.
Yes, there is not much you can fix in these latest Macs, everything is soldered in. No upgrade path either after its purchased. But I guess Mac owners have Apple care and trade ins to fall back on as long as they are willing to pay, which is sort of stress free as long as the wallet can bear it.

KVRian
889 posts since 29 Oct, 2015 from Jupiter 8

Post Thu Nov 25, 2021 10:03 am

dellboy wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 8:11 am
But I guess Mac owners have Apple care and trade ins to fall back on as long as they are willing to pay, which is sort of stress free as long as the wallet can bear it.
I just recently bought my first Macbook - still waiting for it's delivery though. Without Apple Care. If it should fail within just a couple of years, it propably would also be my last Mac, as within my 40+ years use of computers, this would actually be the first system to ever fail on me*.
And i'm one of those weirdos who still loves to use 30+ years old computers or consoles.



* only system to ever break for me was an old laptop i got for free which was laying on the floor when i decided to open my window at night and accidently stepped on it and thus installed a spiderman app to it
There's no Logic to Windows

KVRer
3 posts since 21 Sep, 2012

Post Thu Nov 25, 2021 11:04 am

Gadget Fiend wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:15 am
sentient.minority wrote:
Thu Nov 18, 2021 3:02 pm
Just put in an order for an i9-12900K rig, retired the old 2013 MacBook Pro Retina. Looking forward to the new system. Having an RME HDSPe RayDAT put in too. Happy to report back when it arrives.
My RME RayDAT was a nightmare on my custom built PC (going back to Windows 7). I would get HARD crashes every 4 to 6 months that would bring my entire system down. I would have to do a clean install of the OS and hundreds of plugins. It was sheer insanity.

I now have an (aging) 2015 MacBook Pro with a MOTU 16A Thunderbolt interface. This system has NEVER crashed on me (though there have been times when I have needed to reboot because my Cubase performance meter was pinning).
I’ve had a Babyface for years and it’s never let me down, if I experience those sorts of issues I’m covered by the builders warranty. Whilst I’ve built computers in the past I can’t be bothered these days. I just need more than 1 set of ADAT in/outs. My 2013 MacBook Pro couldn’t cope any more! If the M1 MacBooks were more software compatible I’d buy another.

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