VSTi's of much more modern synths?

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
wwjd
KVRian
586 posts since 18 Nov, 2010

Post Mon Nov 29, 2021 6:02 pm

why has no one done any free or pay versions of newerish hardware?

Where's the cheap knockoff version of the Prophet 08 PE, or Deepmind12, or MicroKorg, Korg Minilogue, VolcaKeys?

is there some unwritten rule to avoid new stuff?
I'm aware of the KB ones that are more about interface than real sound

Watchful
KVRian
650 posts since 9 Jan, 2018

Post Mon Nov 29, 2021 6:19 pm

Well, okay--this is going to have a bunch of different answers from people, all of which are probably correct.

My first guess? Because most modern hardware synths are trying really, really hard to sound like older hardware. The sample-based presets in the hardware sound really good, especially for many acoustic or orchestral sounds, so there's a lot of competition trying to get that $4,000 keyboard to sound like a 1978 Prophet or an Arp Odyssey. The hardware is working extra hard to sound analogy and dirty.

At the same time, a $200 plugin can often far outperform a hardware unit in terms of engine types, modulation abilities, effects and processing, and layering. And generally the UI is far superior to a bunch of submenus and control screen taps.

I have a combination of software and hardware: I use software-based a lot, especially for complex sounds and far-out-there things...but the hardware is used more for the expressiveness, ability to control an effect live, MPE, and dynamics. That's something the software-based synths are not as good at, of course. For that, I want some decent hardware to make it comfortable and fast.

Finally, I might suggest there's trademark and other issues at work that prevent a developer from getting too close to a newer emulation. Of course, Roland has done exactly that with their Zenology line, which can do a fair amount of Fantom-type sounds to support that expanding line.

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jamcat
KVRian
1370 posts since 2 Sep, 2019

Post Mon Nov 29, 2021 6:39 pm

The market wants digital models of "classic" synths, because the originals are rare and expensive, so that creates the demand. Everyone can pretend they have a collectible synth for just $69. But really, those digital models ARE modern synths. That's where we are now.
THIS MUSIC HAS BEEN MIXED TO BE PLAYED LOUD SO TURN IT UP

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ChamomileShark
KVRAF
2301 posts since 12 May, 2004 from Oxford, UK

Post Tue Nov 30, 2021 5:15 am

I'd also agree that where alot of the hardware market is either synths that specifically emulate previous classics or at least have some similarity. So why would a developer try to emulate something that is already out there in software and had been emulated before the likes of the Odyssey, 2600 or Prophet 10 came back as hardware?

There are some innovative hardware synths out there but they tend to be alot more niche and probably for mainstream developers they can't see a market.

chk071
KVRAF
30680 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Post Tue Nov 30, 2021 5:38 am

wwjd wrote:
Mon Nov 29, 2021 6:02 pm
why has no one done any free or pay versions of newerish hardware?

Where's the cheap knockoff version of the Prophet 08 PE, or Deepmind12, or MicroKorg, Korg Minilogue, VolcaKeys?

is there some unwritten rule to avoid new stuff?
You ever heard of "classic" stuff? Besides, do you see people soughting after those synths? Meaning that they sell for 10.000 € on Ebay?

If you want such a synth, it's a mere click away on the internet. And, the DeepMind-12 cost 500 € something last time I checked. I don't think there's much demand for such a synth to be emulated. At least I'm not interested, and, I'm a sucker for good analog emulations.
Plugins and a DAW. On an operating system. Which runs on a computer.

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ChamomileShark
KVRAF
2301 posts since 12 May, 2004 from Oxford, UK

Post Tue Nov 30, 2021 5:58 am

oh and re the Volca comment. I just picked up a Volca FM for £60. That's probably half the price of the Arturia emulation. I would imagine the situation with Volca keys would be the same.

The microkorg is a virtual analogue I think - there are loads of other software VAs.

chk071
KVRAF
30680 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Post Tue Nov 30, 2021 6:11 am

ChamomileShark wrote:
Tue Nov 30, 2021 5:58 am
oh and re the Volca comment. I just picked up a Volca FM for £60. That's probably half the price of the Arturia emulation.
Thomann had the red Behringer TD-3 for 79 € in the Black Week, and, I doubt there's a much better purchase for anyone who's into 303's. At least for me, there's not much point in getting an emulation, when you can have 95% accuracy with a real analog synth.

That's what I mean. Just get a modern analog, if there is one. A 303 is unaffordable, so, if there's an emulation, great. If there's a hardware clone, it's probably even closer.
Last edited by chk071 on Tue Nov 30, 2021 6:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
Plugins and a DAW. On an operating system. Which runs on a computer.

Kinh
KVRAF
1762 posts since 26 Aug, 2012

Post Tue Nov 30, 2021 6:12 am

Wha-do you maa-een? Every thang I'm hearin' on Z radio iz classic synth

kvotchin
KVRian
731 posts since 9 Aug, 2018

Post Tue Nov 30, 2021 6:20 am

No-one cares about modern synths. Not even the people buying them for the most part. I’m talking analog synths here, anyway. And workstations, probably (means to an end).

Generally, people buying modern analog synths would prefer to have the genuine item, the OG, if it was available / affordable / maintainable. Sure, they’ll make do with their Take 5, DeepMind or whatever, but it is after all a substitute.

When emulating a hardware synth, you might as well go OG, because it’s what everyone wishes they could use for real.

wwjd
KVRian

Topic Starter

586 posts since 18 Nov, 2010

Post Tue Nov 30, 2021 6:50 am

I guess that all makes sense. But, I can see a time in the near future where we are picking apart the exactly "TONE" and sond of these newer synths and looking for that in a VST. Example, my P08 doesn't sound like my mini brute.

Then, we can continue discussions about how the VST of the minibrute only covers 90% or it sounds nothing like it, not even close. :D

FotoxBr
KVRist
206 posts since 6 Jul, 2019

Post Tue Nov 30, 2021 9:05 am

Only emulating retro stuff is a form of tunnel vision. I am more interested in innovative plugins myself. I must admit I like the additional features in some retro emulations.

unkow
KVRist
41 posts since 29 Sep, 2021

Post Tue Nov 30, 2021 2:01 pm

Well there are some software emulations of Eurorack here & there.

I guess somebody could put out an emulation of the "Colossus" synth; that's a modern synth out of reach of the majority of the buying public.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuoQOkmw7Xs

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ChamomileShark
KVRAF
2301 posts since 12 May, 2004 from Oxford, UK

Post Tue Nov 30, 2021 2:44 pm

unkow wrote:
Tue Nov 30, 2021 2:01 pm
Well there are some software emulations of Eurorack here & there.

I guess somebody could put out an emulation of the "Colossus" synth; that's a modern synth out of reach of the majority of the buying public.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuoQOkmw7Xs
Well not really. Analogue Solutions Solutions have been around for something like 30 years and although Collossus looks like the EMS Synthi 100 it actually re-uses AS's own designs for the VCOs, filters, VCAs etc. I get the feeling that those oscillators are in turn inspired by 60s/70s designs.

So it's a modern synth in that it uses modern parts but the design/sound has more in common with the EMS synths of the late 60s/70s.

If you want something like Collossus in software form then XLis 4 would get you somewhere there as it is an emulation (sort of) between a VCS3 and a Synthi 100, the Synthi 100 being basically 3 VCS3s linked together with a few additional bit added from the other EMS range.

https://www.xils-lab.com/products/xils-4-p-148.html

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