Goodbye, dear plugin! Those that won't make the Apple M1 transition

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
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machinesworking
KVRAF
4078 posts since 15 Aug, 2003 from seattle

Post Wed Dec 01, 2021 4:07 pm

pdxindy wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 1:35 pm
syntonica wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 12:21 pm
Just remembered: Time to bid fare thee well to Tassman... :(
Yeah...
Did either of you check to see if it's working? or is this based on projection that Tassman will not work in the future? Bitwig may actually hold out for longer than the rest with x86 VST plug ins, it's entirely possible that their method is mostly OS proof for instance.

Personally I haven't used Tassman in years already. :shrug:

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Arashi
KVRian
547 posts since 9 Apr, 2005 from Japan

Post Wed Dec 01, 2021 4:51 pm

machinesworking wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 2:30 am
I dunno man, it seems like this Rosetta isn't that bad, a ten percent CPU hit on plug ins that use it, but if you're running a native DAW and using mostly native plug ins, it's not a deal killer. Spark 2 was updated for Rosetta 2 support, and personally it's my favorite drum machine in a DAW by a long shot with the SparkLe hardware. So I'm not planning on ditching Rosetta completely for a long time, unless Arturia somehow magically decide to start developing Spark again.
From what I've heard, even in Rosetta everything still ends up being faster on M1 chips.

The problem is it's not a permanent solution. Apple will eventually phase it out, like they did with Rosetta 1. Whenever that happens, any software that still hasn't been updated to run natively on Apple Silicon will stop working. Rosetta 1 was introduced in 2006 (in Mac OS X 10.4.4 "Tiger"), deprecated in 2009 (Mac OS X 10.6 "Snow Leopard"; Rosetta was not included but could be downloaded on demand), and removed in 2011 (Mac OS X 10.7 "Lion"). Don't know if Rosetta 2 will follow a similar timeline, but if it does, Intel apps that don't get updated will only work for another four years (assuming they aren't broken by some other OS change in the meantime).

So yeah, Rosetta is awesome, but if you want to keep Spark around, Arturia will have to resurrect it and start actively working on it again.
Stormchild

grrrz
KVRer
26 posts since 2 Dec, 2021

Post Wed Dec 01, 2021 5:30 pm

just bought the trash 2 (loved the version 1) in the izotope bundle just to learn it will never make it. still can use it through Rosetta.

User avatar
machinesworking
KVRAF
4078 posts since 15 Aug, 2003 from seattle

Post Wed Dec 01, 2021 8:24 pm

Arashi wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 4:51 pm
machinesworking wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 2:30 am
I dunno man, it seems like this Rosetta isn't that bad, a ten percent CPU hit on plug ins that use it, but if you're running a native DAW and using mostly native plug ins, it's not a deal killer. Spark 2 was updated for Rosetta 2 support, and personally it's my favorite drum machine in a DAW by a long shot with the SparkLe hardware. So I'm not planning on ditching Rosetta completely for a long time, unless Arturia somehow magically decide to start developing Spark again.
From what I've heard, even in Rosetta everything still ends up being faster on M1 chips.

The problem is it's not a permanent solution. Apple will eventually phase it out, like they did with Rosetta 1. Whenever that happens, any software that still hasn't been updated to run natively on Apple Silicon will stop working. Rosetta 1 was introduced in 2006 (in Mac OS X 10.4.4 "Tiger"), deprecated in 2009 (Mac OS X 10.6 "Snow Leopard"; Rosetta was not included but could be downloaded on demand), and removed in 2011 (Mac OS X 10.7 "Lion"). Don't know if Rosetta 2 will follow a similar timeline, but if it does, Intel apps that don't get updated will only work for another four years (assuming they aren't broken by some other OS change in the meantime).

So yeah, Rosetta is awesome, but if you want to keep Spark around, Arturia will have to resurrect it and start actively working on it again.
I was around for all that, I've seen your name in your sig for that long as well! :) Yeah, at some point Rosetta dies, then it's the end users choice on how to deal with that death. Personally I have an old 09 Mac Pro I modified that will have Spark, Camel Audio Alchemy, MachFive 3, among other plug ins that might not be around in 5 years. That's the Beauty of Vienna Ensemble Pro, and the destruction of the 09 in terms of selling, in a couple years these things won't be worth anything, which is fine, they make great legacy devices.

5 years is a given from the time of the last sale of Intel Macs which are still being sold.

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pdxindy
KVRAF
20906 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Post Thu Dec 02, 2021 7:14 am

Some other ones that may be gone... The PPG synths! Unique synths. They were sold to Plugin Alliance 21 months ago with the statement they would be developed and re-released. There has not been a peep since then and none of the current Plugin Alliance synths are M1 native. I'm not confident the PPG synths will ever re-emerge.

I would love to see Wavemapper, Infinite and Phonem all rise from the dead!

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machinesworking
KVRAF
4078 posts since 15 Aug, 2003 from seattle

Post Thu Dec 02, 2021 10:13 am

pdxindy wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 7:14 am
Some other ones that may be gone... The PPG synths! Unique synths. They were sold to Plugin Alliance 21 months ago with the statement they would be developed and re-released. There has not been a peep since then and none of the current Plugin Alliance synths are M1 native. I'm not confident the PPG synths will ever re-emerge.

I would love to see Wavemapper, Infinite and Phonem all rise from the dead!
I'd forgotten about that, weird thing to do, buy out a company then sit on the products..

Lion, Thorn, and Knifoium going native as well would be great.

User avatar
Sahul
KVRian
578 posts since 20 Nov, 2000 from Valencia, Spain

Post Thu Dec 02, 2021 11:00 am

Also, if you are a Cubase/Nuendo user, Steinberg has confirmed that the forthcoming Cubase 12, which will be Apple M1 native, won't support VST 2 plugins on the Mac side anymore. Even Soundtoys are now on a hurry to release M1/VST 3 compatible versions of their full suite:
https://www.soundtoys.com/m1-capability/

User avatar
machinesworking
KVRAF
4078 posts since 15 Aug, 2003 from seattle

Post Thu Dec 02, 2021 2:32 pm

Sahul wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 11:00 am
Also, if you are a Cubase/Nuendo user, Steinberg has confirmed that the forthcoming Cubase 12, which will be Apple M1 native, won't support VST 2 plugins on the Mac side anymore. Even Soundtoys are now on a hurry to release M1/VST 3 compatible versions of their full suite:
https://www.soundtoys.com/m1-capability/
Ugh, love their plug ins, but it sounds like they rushed to get Apple Silicon support, and didn't take the opportunity to get resizable GUIs and VST3 support worked out as well. Plus Digital Performer 11 has been out since July with native M1 support, they didn't bother to check before writing the page...

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Tj Shredder
KVRAF
6551 posts since 6 Jan, 2017 from Outer Space

Post Fri Dec 03, 2021 11:27 pm

pdxindy wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 7:14 am
Some other ones that may be gone... The PPG synths! Unique synths. They were sold to Plugin Alliance 21 months ago with the statement they would be developed and re-released. There has not been a peep since then and none of the current Plugin Alliance synths are M1 native. I'm not confident the PPG synths will ever re-emerge.

I would love to see Wavemapper, Infinite and Phonem all rise from the dead!
If PA would allow it, they could run native even now in Logic. They do run on iPads since the appearance of M1 iPads…
And to clarify not PA took over, its Brainworx as far as I know, and they had been hit hard by the flood…

Ploki
KVRAF
5236 posts since 17 Dec, 2009

Post Sat Dec 04, 2021 1:54 am

pdxindy wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 7:14 am
Some other ones that may be gone... The PPG synths! Unique synths. They were sold to Plugin Alliance 21 months ago with the statement they would be developed and re-released. There has not been a peep since then and none of the current Plugin Alliance synths are M1 native. I'm not confident the PPG synths will ever re-emerge.

I would love to see Wavemapper, Infinite and Phonem all rise from the dead!
machinesworking wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 10:13 am
I'd forgotten about that, weird thing to do, buy out a company then sit on the products..

Lion, Thorn, and Knifoium going native as well would be great.
Thorn is native (i run it), along with the PA licensing framework, PA just won't release the binaries because their installer and their own shit isn't native so they're holding back, probably for "one big release" M1ega Sale or whatever
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Image

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syntonica
KVRian

Topic Starter

1253 posts since 25 Sep, 2014 from Specific Northwest

Post Sat Dec 04, 2021 3:31 am

Ploki wrote:
Sat Dec 04, 2021 1:54 am
Thorn is native (i run it), along with the PA licensing framework, PA just won't release the binaries because their installer and their own shit isn't native so they're holding back, probably for "one big release" M1ega Sale or whatever
Well, that's certainly more readable then using "file" in the terminal. What tool is that in your attachment? (My daily driver is still High Sierra...)

Ploki
KVRAF
5236 posts since 17 Dec, 2009

Post Sat Dec 04, 2021 3:42 am

syntonica wrote:
Sat Dec 04, 2021 3:31 am
Ploki wrote:
Sat Dec 04, 2021 1:54 am
Thorn is native (i run it), along with the PA licensing framework, PA just won't release the binaries because their installer and their own shit isn't native so they're holding back, probably for "one big release" M1ega Sale or whatever
Well, that's certainly more readable then using "file" in the terminal. What tool is that in your attachment? (My daily driver is still High Sierra...)
https://eclecticlight.co/32-bitcheck-archichect/
Image

User avatar
syntonica
KVRian

Topic Starter

1253 posts since 25 Sep, 2014 from Specific Northwest

Post Sat Dec 04, 2021 5:30 am

Ploki wrote:
Sat Dec 04, 2021 3:42 am
syntonica wrote:
Sat Dec 04, 2021 3:31 am
Ploki wrote:
Sat Dec 04, 2021 1:54 am
Thorn is native (i run it), along with the PA licensing framework, PA just won't release the binaries because their installer and their own shit isn't native so they're holding back, probably for "one big release" M1ega Sale or whatever
Well, that's certainly more readable then using "file" in the terminal. What tool is that in your attachment? (My daily driver is still High Sierra...)
https://eclecticlight.co/32-bitcheck-archichect/
:love: Thank you! :love:

(Downloading now...)

Gadget Fiend
Banned
434 posts since 5 Feb, 2012

Post Sat Dec 04, 2021 5:46 am

BONES wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 9:14 pm
chk071 wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:16 pm
Microsoft always was about compatibility, although Windows 11 is a bit of a blow for that.
Says who? Can you name even one compatibility issue anyone has had that can't be fixed by installing the latest driver? I've read about performance issues and issues with Windows 11 itself but I am unaware of any compatibility issues from anyone, even after searching for problems on line.
Hey doh boy, what about the 8th Gen Core iX requirement for Windows 11? How's that not a humungous compatibility issue?
Matrix-1000, MicroWave with Access programmer, MicroWave II, MKS-50 with MidiClub programmer, MKS-70, MKS-80 with Kiwi Patch Editor, Nord 2 Rack, Nord 3 Rack, Prophet REV2 module, Pulse 2, Shruthi, Virus TI

User avatar
syntonica
KVRian

Topic Starter

1253 posts since 25 Sep, 2014 from Specific Northwest

Post Sat Dec 04, 2021 5:52 am

machinesworking wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 4:07 pm
pdxindy wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 1:35 pm
syntonica wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 12:21 pm
Just remembered: Time to bid fare thee well to Tassman... :(
Yeah...
Did either of you check to see if it's working? or is this based on projection that Tassman will not work in the future? Bitwig may actually hold out for longer than the rest with x86 VST plug ins, it's entirely possible that their method is mostly OS proof for instance.

Personally I haven't used Tassman in years already. :shrug:
Missed your question. I don't have an M1 yet, but Tassman is 32-bit. They wrote their own bridge to use it in 64-bit. I can't imagine how well this would fly in Rosetta. Probably Spruce Goose at best, but more likely fireball plummeting to Earth.

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