Boutiques are stupid - build a 3U rack with all the Zenology models

Anything about hardware musical instruments.
Gadget Fiend
Banned
434 posts since 5 Feb, 2012

Post Fri Dec 03, 2021 6:58 pm

Let's face it. Boutiques are stupid. They are just a money grab for Roland trading on its rich analog heritage. Roland builds cheap plastic toys that sort of resemble the hardware synth on which they are based. Roland sells this crap on the basis of nostalgia. Ooo, look see, it's a real JX-3P because it has the same color scheme. If the Boutiques were actually usable, this might be acceptable. But given their unusable form factor, it's all nonsense and bullshit.

What Roland should do is create Zenology models of ALL of its legacy hardware synths and package these in a 32 voice metal 3U rack enclosure with a display, usable knobs and sliders, and non-skeuomorphic plugin editors for each of the models.

Roland would kill if they sold this rack and set of software editors for $999
Last edited by Gadget Fiend on Sat Dec 04, 2021 12:43 am, edited 2 times in total.
Matrix-1000, MicroWave with Access programmer, MicroWave II, MKS-50 with MidiClub programmer, MKS-70, MKS-80 with Kiwi Patch Editor, Nord 2 Rack, Nord 3 Rack, Prophet REV2 module, Pulse 2, Shruthi, Virus TI

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zerocrossing
KVRAF
11574 posts since 26 Jun, 2006 from San Francisco Bay Area

Post Fri Dec 03, 2021 7:57 pm

Zenology is stupid too. Make a 3u rack System 8 with 16 voices.
Zerocrossing Media

4th Law of Robotics: When turning evil, display a red indicator light. ~[ ●_● ]~

Gadget Fiend
Banned

Topic Starter

434 posts since 5 Feb, 2012

Post Fri Dec 03, 2021 8:38 pm

zerocrossing wrote:
Fri Dec 03, 2021 7:57 pm
Zenology is stupid too. Make a 3u rack System 8 with 16 voices.
There is no way Roland would be able to create the higher quality ACB models of ALL of its legacy analog and digital hardware synths, supply the memory and DSP to provide 16 voices per model (when most Boutiques are 4 voices,) and price this rack at $999. What you are talking about is a $3,000 DIGITAL synth module. That's a non-starter.
Matrix-1000, MicroWave with Access programmer, MicroWave II, MKS-50 with MidiClub programmer, MKS-70, MKS-80 with Kiwi Patch Editor, Nord 2 Rack, Nord 3 Rack, Prophet REV2 module, Pulse 2, Shruthi, Virus TI

lfm
KVRAF
5756 posts since 22 Jan, 2005 from Sweden

Post Sat Dec 04, 2021 5:27 am

zerocrossing wrote:
Fri Dec 03, 2021 7:57 pm
Zenology is stupid too. Make a 3u rack System 8 with 16 voices.
What kept me away from System-8 was just 64 user presets.

What are you to do with these?
It's rediculous.

And loosing knobs per function panel in a rack is not that attractive either. But if squeeze those in there, and plenty storage I would look at it.

At least with Boutique D-05 there were 6x64 factory presets, the original D-50 and the 5 memory cards Roland released. The on top of that 8x64 user presets. D-05 is nothing you make sounds with, just loading sysex from D-50 on the internet, but regarding locations good thinking.

Later Boutique models I think I saw at least 250 user presets or something. The first were sparse if 32 or something.

And since no Rolands I saw yet have preview or compare of storage locations as you are to save intermediate saves, I wonder how much Roland staff really make sounds and spend time with the units.

Roland targeted people that just buy libraries with sounds i various ways. JV-80 series was built on that too. The fun factor is not there on Roland at all what I saw in making own sounds.

I had my Polybrute now from almost a month, and all the good thinking put into this unit is nothing less than incredible. It's a magnet to sit down and just go wild in experimenting.

You have 768 preset locations, and obviously preview before overwriting anything and a snapshot memory as well for one button save of what you have so far.

vitocorleone123
KVRian
1023 posts since 30 Jun, 2014 from Pacific NW

Post Sun Dec 05, 2021 10:37 pm

Gadget Fiend wrote:
Fri Dec 03, 2021 6:58 pm
Let's face it. Boutiques are stupid. They are just a money grab for Roland trading on its rich analog heritage. Roland builds cheap plastic toys that sort of resemble the hardware synth on which they are based. Roland sells this crap on the basis of nostalgia. Ooo, look see, it's a real JX-3P because it has the same color scheme. If the Boutiques were actually usable, this might be acceptable. But given their unusable form factor, it's all nonsense and bullshit.

What Roland should do is create Zenology models of ALL of its legacy hardware synths and package these in a 32 voice metal 3U rack enclosure with a display, usable knobs and sliders, and non-skeuomorphic plugin editors for each of the models.

Roland would kill if they sold this rack and set of software editors for $999
My SE-02 has been incredibly usable, and it’s just the right size for my space. I bought it because it sounds amazing. And still think it does 3 years later. And it’s better to me than anything you’ve mentioned.

Gadget Fiend
Banned

Topic Starter

434 posts since 5 Feb, 2012

Post Mon Dec 06, 2021 11:47 pm

vitocorleone123 wrote:
Sun Dec 05, 2021 10:37 pm
My SE-02 has been incredibly usable, and it’s just the right size for my space. I bought it because it sounds amazing. And still think it does 3 years later. And it’s better to me than anything you’ve mentioned.
The top end of the SE-02 is way too fizzy and harsh. (I'm talking about the saw wave.) You basically have to set the filter cutoff to about 2/3rds of the full range to get anything usable. Even then (which is surprising given the unit's 4-pole filter) you can still hear some of that fizziness bleed through.

Plus, come on, the knob size is just stupid small. And the lack of a display for naming patches is a dealbreaker for me.

If they fixed the saw waveform and put everything in a 3U rack unit with a display (and killed the sequencer which is useless,) this would have made a great $799 synth that would compete with the likes of the Waldorf Pulse 2 and Moog Minitaur which are both superior synths as it stands.
Matrix-1000, MicroWave with Access programmer, MicroWave II, MKS-50 with MidiClub programmer, MKS-70, MKS-80 with Kiwi Patch Editor, Nord 2 Rack, Nord 3 Rack, Prophet REV2 module, Pulse 2, Shruthi, Virus TI

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elxsound
KVRAF
7499 posts since 18 Aug, 2007 from NYC

Post Tue Dec 07, 2021 1:26 am

Gadget Fiend wrote:
Mon Dec 06, 2021 11:47 pm
vitocorleone123 wrote:
Sun Dec 05, 2021 10:37 pm
My SE-02 has been incredibly usable, and it’s just the right size for my space. I bought it because it sounds amazing. And still think it does 3 years later. And it’s better to me than anything you’ve mentioned.
The top end of the SE-02 is way too fizzy and harsh. (I'm talking about the saw wave.) You basically have to set the filter cutoff to about 2/3rds of the full range to get anything usable. Even then (which is surprising given the unit's 4-pole filter) you can still hear some of that fizziness bleed through.

Plus, come on, the knob size is just stupid small. And the lack of a display for naming patches is a dealbreaker for me.

If they fixed the saw waveform and put everything in a 3U rack unit with a display (and killed the sequencer which is useless,) this would have made a great $799 synth that would compete with the likes of the Waldorf Pulse 2 and Moog Minitaur which are both superior synths as it stands.
I think that bold text sums up your response.

SE-02 is still a beast at its current price. The knobs actually work just fine. There’s also a fully featured software editors from Studio Electronics and the optional EXT-Box from Studio Electronics.

I can see the argument for the others but at the same time I think it’s pretty clear this is a specialty line meant to fit this specific size and form/function.

I think it’s stupid to complain about the boutiques and better just to request a new product because there’s no reason that what you want can’t be made as another product.

If you could drum up support and show that they’ll make money from it, they’ll likely make it.

You’ll likely get more support if you’re not suggesting that people should choose what you want over things they likely already bought.

Gadget Fiend
Banned

Topic Starter

434 posts since 5 Feb, 2012

Post Tue Dec 07, 2021 1:42 am

elxsound wrote:
Tue Dec 07, 2021 1:26 am
If you could drum up support and show that they’ll make money from it, they’ll likely make it.
Ha!, oh my hopelessly naive little friend. Do you think Roland actually listens to ANY of its customers? We wouldn't have Boutiques if they did. We wouldn't have that broken sh!t Roland Cloud subscription if they did.

Roland can trade on the names/color schemes of their classic legacy synths for only so long. Pretty soon customers will wise up and say, "This is inferior bullshit. I want the real thing, or something that actually sounds like the synth on which it was supposedly modeled. Otherwise I'll go elsewhere, i.e., Arturia, Softube, TAL, etc."
Matrix-1000, MicroWave with Access programmer, MicroWave II, MKS-50 with MidiClub programmer, MKS-70, MKS-80 with Kiwi Patch Editor, Nord 2 Rack, Nord 3 Rack, Prophet REV2 module, Pulse 2, Shruthi, Virus TI

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excuse me please
KVRAF
1639 posts since 10 Oct, 2018

Post Tue Dec 07, 2021 2:24 am

64 presets. I expect 6400 presets and I am not even kidding. This is 2021, I easily use up 128 presets for a single sound.

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elxsound
KVRAF
7499 posts since 18 Aug, 2007 from NYC

Post Tue Dec 07, 2021 10:14 am

Gadget Fiend wrote:
Tue Dec 07, 2021 1:42 am
elxsound wrote:
Tue Dec 07, 2021 1:26 am
If you could drum up support and show that they’ll make money from it, they’ll likely make it.
Ha!, oh my hopelessly naive little friend. Do you think Roland actually listens to ANY of its customers? We wouldn't have Boutiques if they did. We wouldn't have that broken sh!t Roland Cloud subscription if they did.

Roland can trade on the names/color schemes of their classic legacy synths for only so long. Pretty soon customers will wise up and say, "This is inferior bullshit. I want the real thing, or something that actually sounds like the synth on which it was supposedly modeled. Otherwise I'll go elsewhere, i.e., Arturia, Softube, TAL, etc."
Who’s more naive here, the one expressing their opinion as if it’s everyone else’s or the one that understands they release products based on what sells.

There wouldn’t be a whole line of boutiques if nobody bought them. Most of their releases have not only sold out, but increased in value after they sold out which feeds into the desirability of the product.

*In many ways they struck gold because it’s hard to manufacture FOMO combined with nostalgia.

The TR-09 vs the TR-6S is a perfect example. Used prices of the TR-09 exceed the original price even though the TR-6S not only has the same engine of the TR-09 but also all the other boutique drum machines, in just one product available new for less money. There’s trade offs in features but if you just want the sound, TR-6S makes more sense.

Anyway it seems you have no interest in the product you claim to wish to see and only want to bitch about the boutique line that seems to be selling well for them, so this is where I say good luck to you.

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zerocrossing
KVRAF
11574 posts since 26 Jun, 2006 from San Francisco Bay Area

Post Tue Dec 07, 2021 10:54 am

lfm wrote:
Sat Dec 04, 2021 5:27 am
zerocrossing wrote:
Fri Dec 03, 2021 7:57 pm
Zenology is stupid too. Make a 3u rack System 8 with 16 voices.
What kept me away from System-8 was just 64 user presets.

What are you to do with these?
It's rediculous.

And loosing knobs per function panel in a rack is not that attractive either. But if squeeze those in there, and plenty storage I would look at it.

At least with Boutique D-05 there were 6x64 factory presets, the original D-50 and the 5 memory cards Roland released. The on top of that 8x64 user presets. D-05 is nothing you make sounds with, just loading sysex from D-50 on the internet, but regarding locations good thinking.

Later Boutique models I think I saw at least 250 user presets or something. The first were sparse if 32 or something.

And since no Rolands I saw yet have preview or compare of storage locations as you are to save intermediate saves, I wonder how much Roland staff really make sounds and spend time with the units.

Roland targeted people that just buy libraries with sounds i various ways. JV-80 series was built on that too. The fun factor is not there on Roland at all what I saw in making own sounds.

I had my Polybrute now from almost a month, and all the good thinking put into this unit is nothing less than incredible. It's a magnet to sit down and just go wild in experimenting.

You have 768 preset locations, and obviously preview before overwriting anything and a snapshot memory as well for one button save of what you have so far.
Oh, I’m right there with you. I don’t own a Roland hardware synth at all and I also have the PolyBrute, which I love. I’ve not even installed Roland Cloud, though I own System 100, Jupiter 8 and Juno 106. I’ve got other software that covers those sounds (Arturia and Softube) and that’s that.

I do have a Torcido, though. I quite like that one. I use CV from my Dominion 1 to control it.
Zerocrossing Media

4th Law of Robotics: When turning evil, display a red indicator light. ~[ ●_● ]~

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vurt
addled muppet weed
88864 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass

Post Tue Dec 07, 2021 11:07 am

excuse me please wrote:
Tue Dec 07, 2021 2:24 am
64 presets. I expect 6400 presets and I am not even kidding. This is 2021, I easily use up 128 presets for a single sound.
presets are for girls.
or boys.

CapnLockheed
KVRAF
2542 posts since 12 Mar, 2002 from Central NY

Post Tue Dec 07, 2021 11:47 am

presets are for girls or boys
LMFAO!! :lol: :lol: :lol:
the secrets to old age: Faster horses, Richer Women, Bigger CPU's

https://soundcloud.com/cristofe-chabot/sets/main

kritikon
KVRAF
5755 posts since 24 May, 2002 from Tutukaka, New Zealand

Post Tue Dec 07, 2021 1:36 pm

vurt wrote:
Tue Dec 07, 2021 11:07 am

presets are for girls.
or boys.
And what about those inbetween and the TQ+ tacked on the end and the future addenda that may make LGBTQI+ a very long shortcut indeed? And wombles/clangers - AFAIK they don't have any sex at all, but I'm pretty sure one or two of them played instruments. Are presets for them?

Actually you might possibly (and strangely) have been more politically correct to just say presets are for pussies
...and pooches.

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cryophonik
KVRAF
7633 posts since 7 Sep, 2006 from Roseville, CA

Post Tue Dec 07, 2021 1:39 pm

Presets are for losers.


There. Problem solved. :hihi:

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