Sub bass issue

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superstardj02
KVRer
28 posts since 20 Apr, 2021

Post Wed Dec 08, 2021 6:50 pm

Hey peeps,

I've made a trance track and when the sub (triplets) follows the bass notes of the lead they're either too low and lose all it's power and sounds bad or if I up them an octive they're too high, how can I sort this out so it sounds good?

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Dirtgrain
KVRAF
2481 posts since 12 Jan, 2019

Post Wed Dec 08, 2021 7:11 pm

I only mess around with trance here and there, but choosing/crafting the bass sound for the triplets is the work. It's trial and error for me. I find a lot of bass presets I've made don't work for it (attack of the bass/transient sound and timbre need consideration). I imagine Dash Glitch would have some good tutorials on Youtube for this.
"Have you ever noticed how anyone driving faster than you is a [jerk] and anyone driving slower than you is a moron?" - George Carlin

superstardj02
KVRer

Topic Starter

28 posts since 20 Apr, 2021

Post Wed Dec 08, 2021 7:46 pm

Dirtgrain wrote:
Wed Dec 08, 2021 7:11 pm
I only mess around with trance here and there, but choosing/crafting the bass sound for the triplets is the work. It's trial and error for me. I find a lot of bass presets I've made don't work for it (attack of the bass/transient sound and timbre need consideration). I imagine Dash Glitch would have some good tutorials on Youtube for this.
Thanks I'll check the channel out, the presets sounds great for all the sub apart from this one section.

recursive one
KVRAF
5646 posts since 7 Feb, 2013

Post Thu Dec 09, 2021 2:16 am

You may want to have separate sub channels for each note, with their own synth settings and their own processing.

Also do your monitors reporduce sub accurately, is your room treated, do you have the same problem in the monitors and the headphones? That might be monitoring issues.
You may think you can fly ... but you better not try

https://soundcloud.com/recursion-loop/s ... travels-ep

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DJ Warmonger
KVRAF
4387 posts since 7 Jun, 2012 from Warsaw

Post Thu Dec 09, 2021 3:21 am

Ohh, it's the difficult part of trance production.

iZotope Tonal Balance Control helped me to get the EQ right. Then I use linear phase EQ to maintain the waveform of original sound so it doesn't change its amplitude in unexpected ways.
Blog ------------- YouTube channel
Tricky-Loops wrote: (...)someone like Armin van Buuren who claims to make a track in half an hour and all his songs sound somewhat boring(...)

superstardj02
KVRer

Topic Starter

28 posts since 20 Apr, 2021

Post Thu Dec 09, 2021 11:45 am

DJ Warmonger wrote:
Thu Dec 09, 2021 3:21 am
Ohh, it's the difficult part of trance production.

iZotope Tonal Balance Control helped me to get the EQ right. Then I use linear phase EQ to maintain the waveform of original sound so it doesn't change its amplitude in unexpected ways.
It's weird it sound stone on some speakers and not on others

superstardj02
KVRer

Topic Starter

28 posts since 20 Apr, 2021

Post Thu Dec 09, 2021 11:47 am

recursive one wrote:
Thu Dec 09, 2021 2:16 am
You may want to have separate sub channels for each note, with their own synth settings and their own processing.

Also do your monitors reporduce sub accurately, is your room treated, do you have the same problem in the monitors and the headphones? That might be monitoring issues.
Room is not accurately treated, speakers produce sub ok normally, it sounds ok in earphones (not tried my studio ones) sounds good on my Bluetooth speaker, but not in my car Bose system.

recursive one
KVRAF
5646 posts since 7 Feb, 2013

Post Thu Dec 09, 2021 11:50 pm

superstardj02 wrote:
Thu Dec 09, 2021 11:47 am
recursive one wrote:
Thu Dec 09, 2021 2:16 am
You may want to have separate sub channels for each note, with their own synth settings and their own processing.

Also do your monitors reporduce sub accurately, is your room treated, do you have the same problem in the monitors and the headphones? That might be monitoring issues.
Room is not accurately treated, speakers produce sub ok normally, it sounds ok in earphones (not tried my studio ones) sounds good on my Bluetooth speaker, but not in my car Bose system.
So does the problem only appear in your car system? Or also in your mixing speakers? But not in headphones?

In any case, short percussive basses, like trance/psy basses, tend to sound best only in a narrow pitch range, often less than an octave. When you change the bass note it's often best to clone the bass channel and tweak it to find the sweet spot for the new pitch.
You may think you can fly ... but you better not try

https://soundcloud.com/recursion-loop/s ... travels-ep

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DJ Warmonger
KVRAF
4387 posts since 7 Jun, 2012 from Warsaw

Post Fri Dec 10, 2021 1:19 am

superstardj02 wrote:
Thu Dec 09, 2021 11:45 am
DJ Warmonger wrote:
Thu Dec 09, 2021 3:21 am
Ohh, it's the difficult part of trance production.

iZotope Tonal Balance Control helped me to get the EQ right. Then I use linear phase EQ to maintain the waveform of original sound so it doesn't change its amplitude in unexpected ways.
It's weird it sound stone on some speakers and not on others
Spectral imbalance I guess. If you have noticeable resonant peaks, they resonate in some rooms (or less than perfect sound system) while not the others.
Blog ------------- YouTube channel
Tricky-Loops wrote: (...)someone like Armin van Buuren who claims to make a track in half an hour and all his songs sound somewhat boring(...)

borsc
KVRer
6 posts since 25 Nov, 2021

Post Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:22 am

not sure

enroe
KVRAF
1714 posts since 19 Mar, 2008 from germany

Post Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:56 am

superstardj02 wrote:
Wed Dec 08, 2021 6:50 pm
... they're either too low and lose all it's power and sounds bad ...
In order to become a real "superstar DJ" you could analyze your room
acoustics. The natural resonances of your room are:

f = 170 / d

If you insert the room width, room depth and room height for "d" one
after the other - in meters, you get the 3 natural room resonances, in
Hertz. So if your studio room is not specially damped against these
frequencies, then precisely these frequencies are particularly loud -
and you must NOT lower them - to compensate for this. :wink:

The best thing to do is to work on these sub-bass frequencies with
headphones - and try to achieve the most balanced result possible
to reach. E.g. with separate sub-bass tracks. :phones:
free mp3s + info: andy-enroe.de songs + weird stuff: enroe.de

Proper Lo-Fi
KVRer
6 posts since 27 Sep, 2021

Post Thu Jan 13, 2022 4:25 am

Powerful sub bass is often dependent on the key you write in. E-A tend to be most consistent in terms of power vs pitch. Too much lower and systems struggle to reproduce it, too much higher and you lose the sub as it enters the simple bass range. Sub sits in quite a narrow range of less than an octave so to maintain power you can't deviate too much from providing notes that sit in that range. Assuming that the sub is not hitting with the kick a la most trance, phase coherence between the two shouldn't be an issue but if they do hit at the same time at any point that needs to be checked.

superstardj02
KVRer

Topic Starter

28 posts since 20 Apr, 2021

Post Thu Jan 13, 2022 4:32 am

Proper Lo-Fi wrote:
Thu Jan 13, 2022 4:25 am
Powerful sub bass is often dependent on the key you write in. E-A tend to be most consistent in terms of power vs pitch. Too much lower and systems struggle to reproduce it, too much higher and you lose the sub as it enters the simple bass range. Sub sits in quite a narrow range of less than an octave so to maintain power you can't deviate too much from providing notes that sit in that range. Assuming that the sub is not hitting with the kick a la most trance, phase coherence between the two shouldn't be an issue but if they do hit at the same time at any point that needs to be checked.
It's sidechained using lfo tool

Proper Lo-Fi
KVRer
6 posts since 27 Sep, 2021

Post Thu Jan 13, 2022 6:00 am

That doesn't mean there can't be phase issues between the two as it will depend on duck amounts and timings. However, from your OP, it suggests it's either the note range of the sub or the sound design used. Are you're sub notes hitting in the key range I suggested?

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kingozrecords
KVRian
1043 posts since 7 Apr, 2019 from Canada

Post Fri Jan 21, 2022 1:25 pm

add gain before a brickwall limiter, like 25 dbfs, then use a wave shaper then reduce by 5-7 dbfs. that will basically normalize in a simple way.
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