If I could Only - Pop Ballad, Piano and Female Vocal
- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 72 posts since 22 Oct, 2002 from Rose of the Shires, UK
This is a song that I have just recorded and produced for a published songwriter who wanted a tribute to his wife who unfortunately died after a long illness. It relates to their shared love and how, as the end for her was drawing near, they used to walk to their favourite spot near a river and watch the sky, birds and river as they contemplated their lives together and gave thanks for it.
Personally, I love the lyrics and feel it hits the spot without being too overly sugary or sentimental.
All I effectively had from the songwriter were the lyrics. This is the first "live" recording I have done in my new studio, so I'd be interested in any feedback, but especially composition, mix and mastering.
https://soundcloud.com/stablegate_music/if-i-could-only
Personally, I love the lyrics and feel it hits the spot without being too overly sugary or sentimental.
All I effectively had from the songwriter were the lyrics. This is the first "live" recording I have done in my new studio, so I'd be interested in any feedback, but especially composition, mix and mastering.
https://soundcloud.com/stablegate_music/if-i-could-only
Music is the food of the soul!
- KVRian
- 1276 posts since 18 May, 2021
Beautiful ballad. Particularly the transition 1:27->133. In terms of mix I though the piano resonances could be tamed just a bit. Sometimes it competes with the vocal a little more than I would like. The vocal is slightly sibilant at times.
All that said, maybe if you tamed it too much then it would loose some of its power?
In general, I enjoyed it.
All that said, maybe if you tamed it too much then it would loose some of its power?
In general, I enjoyed it.
eassae.com
“I do nothing professionally, I do everything for fun.”—Prince, Under the Cherry Moon
“I do nothing professionally, I do everything for fun.”—Prince, Under the Cherry Moon
- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 72 posts since 22 Oct, 2002 from Rose of the Shires, UK
Thank you! And your remarks are spot on; I spent hours trying to balance the singers vocals with the piano, especially in that loud transition part where you can tell where I used compression and automation combined to duck the piano to stop it overwhelming her voice. Even so, its still not as I would have exactly liked it.
Recording this singer was problematic as she has such a dynamic range, getting the recording levels right was a real challenge. There is a de-esser on there but again, I had to dial it back otherwise it introduced other artifacts. It was only the stock Ableton plugin so maybe a better pro-tool may work better? Similarly, with the reverb; she has such a pure voice that I only wanted the reverb when her vocal fell below a certain level as with reverb on throughout, it muddied the mix but hitting the right level throughout the track was extremely difficult as the quiet passages had the reverb all over it whilst the louder parts had none and then fell away quickly so it wasn't consistent. Maybe I should try automating the reverb sidechain levels better? Hmmm.
Thanks for listening and for your comments, it was very helpful to get your ears and their perspective!
Recording this singer was problematic as she has such a dynamic range, getting the recording levels right was a real challenge. There is a de-esser on there but again, I had to dial it back otherwise it introduced other artifacts. It was only the stock Ableton plugin so maybe a better pro-tool may work better? Similarly, with the reverb; she has such a pure voice that I only wanted the reverb when her vocal fell below a certain level as with reverb on throughout, it muddied the mix but hitting the right level throughout the track was extremely difficult as the quiet passages had the reverb all over it whilst the louder parts had none and then fell away quickly so it wasn't consistent. Maybe I should try automating the reverb sidechain levels better? Hmmm.
Thanks for listening and for your comments, it was very helpful to get your ears and their perspective!
Music is the food of the soul!
- KVRian
- 1045 posts since 3 Jul, 2006
Love the vocals!
The piano is a little too upfront. It's not the level, it's (if I dare say) too detailed, too crisp. Maybe some combination of reverb and filtering could reposition it more in the background.
Overall a very enjoyable song.
The piano is a little too upfront. It's not the level, it's (if I dare say) too detailed, too crisp. Maybe some combination of reverb and filtering could reposition it more in the background.
Overall a very enjoyable song.
- KVRist
- 392 posts since 4 Aug, 2020 from Montreal, Canada
Beautiful song, and I love her voice! And congrats to the new studio!
Songwriting wise I'd love to avoid too many phrases banging on the beat 1s. For a sad/fragile song, it just gives way too much certainty and stability. Check "front-heavy" vs "back-heavy" phrasing. Also check out Pat Pattison's course on coursera: https://www.coursera.org/learn/songwrit ... s#syllabus - Week 5 "Pieces" discusses this with a cool example, another piano/vocal song.
I've long given up learning mixing so I'll skip! But recently I happened to record a piano/vocal song too. If you want to listen to what my mix engineer has done, it's the first link under my link below.
Songwriting wise I'd love to avoid too many phrases banging on the beat 1s. For a sad/fragile song, it just gives way too much certainty and stability. Check "front-heavy" vs "back-heavy" phrasing. Also check out Pat Pattison's course on coursera: https://www.coursera.org/learn/songwrit ... s#syllabus - Week 5 "Pieces" discusses this with a cool example, another piano/vocal song.
I've long given up learning mixing so I'll skip! But recently I happened to record a piano/vocal song too. If you want to listen to what my mix engineer has done, it's the first link under my link below.
- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 72 posts since 22 Oct, 2002 from Rose of the Shires, UK
Thanks for your comments, which I think are fair. I'm going to have a look at redoing the mastering to take into account your suggestions, especially the reverb, although I don't want to have it swimming. The sound I am trying to emulate is a simple solo singer and piano in a single space so unifying the reverb across vox and instrument is the challenge.
Music is the food of the soul!
- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 72 posts since 22 Oct, 2002 from Rose of the Shires, UK
Thank you for your kind remarks regarding the song which I read with interest. In terms of the phrases hitting the first beat, I did leave the singer compose and play as she saw fit but I take your point. And many thanks for the link to the Berklee songwriting course, I just watched a couple of the pieces which illustrates your point really well. I might just subscribe to the course because it looks so rich in content.shawshawraw wrote: ↑Wed Jan 12, 2022 3:59 pm Beautiful song, and I love her voice! And congrats to the new studio!
Songwriting wise I'd love to avoid too many phrases banging on the beat 1s. For a sad/fragile song, it just gives way too much certainty and stability. Check "front-heavy" vs "back-heavy" phrasing. Also check out Pat Pattison's course on coursera: https://www.coursera.org/learn/songwrit ... s#syllabus - Week 5 "Pieces" discusses this with a cool example, another piano/vocal song.
I've long given up learning mixing so I'll skip! But recently I happened to record a piano/vocal song too. If you want to listen to what my mix engineer has done, it's the first link under my link below.
I watched and listened to your track; you are a very accomplished piano player that's for sure and I did glean a couple of things to think about from your mix. Thanks again for your response, much appreciated.
Music is the food of the soul!
- KVRist
- 392 posts since 4 Aug, 2020 from Montreal, Canada
- KVRAF
- 21196 posts since 8 Oct, 2014
Music is beautiful. Sadly, the piano competes so much with the vocal that you miss a lot of the lyrics. This really needs to be remixed. As it's only piano and vocal, it shouldn't be too difficult. But as it is, it does the song a disservice.
- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 72 posts since 22 Oct, 2002 from Rose of the Shires, UK
Thanks for your thoughts and comments, always good to get other peoples perspectives.
I agree that I need to remix for the reasons you and others have stated so have spent time in the studio again today re-mixing and mastering. Going to give my ears a rest and then hopefully repost the revised (improved?) version tomorrow.
Music is the food of the soul!
-
ChameleonMusic ChameleonMusic https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=430348
- KVRAF
- 1611 posts since 23 Nov, 2018 from Birmingham, UK
Good song and the production works pretty well overall...a few tweaks here and there can always be done for ever, but it works effectively in terms of putting the song over to the listener in a way that connects!
A lot more work, I know, but it would be interesting to hear a version where it 'grows' in terms of instrumentation as well...simple string ensemble? Or even a full orchestra with rock band?
A lot more work, I know, but it would be interesting to hear a version where it 'grows' in terms of instrumentation as well...simple string ensemble? Or even a full orchestra with rock band?
Mark Taylor, Chameleon Music - Professional composition and sound design for all media since 1994.
https://www.chameleonmusic.co.uk/
https://www.chameleonmusic.co.uk/
- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 72 posts since 22 Oct, 2002 from Rose of the Shires, UK
Thanks for your comments, Mark, much appreciated. I am learning more about the craft of mixing and mastering better as I have never had the luxury before of a decent listening environment, so now being able to more accurately train my ears is a new concept for me to learn.ChameleonMusic wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 6:19 pm Good song and the production works pretty well overall...a few tweaks here and there can always be done for ever, but it works effectively in terms of putting the song over to the listener in a way that connects!
A lot more work, I know, but it would be interesting to hear a version where it 'grows' in terms of instrumentation as well...simple string ensemble? Or even a full orchestra with rock band?
I did speak to the songwriter about putting strings on it but he wasn't keen; he just wants this track to send to a big label as a shop-window for his songwriting skills and ability, so all he needs it for is to be an effective selling tool without cluttering it up with too much production. However, out of curiosity, now you suggest it, I may well have a go at doing that. And I now know someone who could really help with that if I get stuck! We may also have a go at recording it with an acoustic guitar too.
Music is the food of the soul!
- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 72 posts since 22 Oct, 2002 from Rose of the Shires, UK
Hi All, I have now posted this version which I've remixed and re-mastered which as a result, sounds much better with the piano pushed back in the mix as others have commented. Plus other changes to compression, EQ, reverb and De-esser. The original is still up there for comparison too:
Remix:
https://soundcloud.com/stablegate_music ... al_sharing
And the original:
https://soundcloud.com/stablegate_music ... al_sharing
As ever, would be interested in any constructive comments. Thanks!
Remix:
https://soundcloud.com/stablegate_music ... al_sharing
And the original:
https://soundcloud.com/stablegate_music ... al_sharing
As ever, would be interested in any constructive comments. Thanks!
Music is the food of the soul!
- KVRian
- 1276 posts since 18 May, 2021
Sounds great, nice work
eassae.com
“I do nothing professionally, I do everything for fun.”—Prince, Under the Cherry Moon
“I do nothing professionally, I do everything for fun.”—Prince, Under the Cherry Moon
- KVRist
- 392 posts since 4 Aug, 2020 from Montreal, Canada
I love the new mix!! Love how the vocal energy is leading the story now. And somehow the song feels faster too (I know it's not)!